Theme: Truth

  • So there are patterns out there we do not know of, yes. If we can speak of those

    So there are patterns out there we do not know of, yes. If we can speak of those patterns we can speak truthfully of them, yes. Falsehood isn’t out there. Only in us. So is truth out there? Or are there patterns out there to speak of truthfully. ie:we make truth b/c truth=speech.


    Source date (UTC): 2019-11-08 19:30:00 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192887010756874241

    Reply addressees: @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM

    Replying to: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192886469750382597


    IN REPLY TO:

    Unknown author

    @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM That’s why you are confused, why most philosophy is nonsense. Think of it this way: Truth is a technology like chemistry. It must be performed.We can speak(do) Truth, we can do(perform) chemistry.Truth is that description we would give if we had enough knowledge of the universe.

    Original post: https://x.com/i/web/status/1192886469750382597


    IN REPLY TO:

    @curtdoolittle

    @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM That’s why you are confused, why most philosophy is nonsense. Think of it this way: Truth is a technology like chemistry. It must be performed.We can speak(do) Truth, we can do(perform) chemistry.Truth is that description we would give if we had enough knowledge of the universe.

    Original post: https://x.com/i/web/status/1192886469750382597

  • That’s why you are confused, why most philosophy is nonsense. Think of it this w

    That’s why you are confused, why most philosophy is nonsense. Think of it this way: Truth is a technology like chemistry. It must be performed.We can speak(do) Truth, we can do(perform) chemistry.Truth is that description we would give if we had enough knowledge of the universe.


    Source date (UTC): 2019-11-08 19:27:51 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192886469750382597

    Reply addressees: @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM

    Replying to: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192884144063168514


    IN REPLY TO:

    @Nalo_Nei

    @curtdoolittle @FreePeterBiarM So…we can aim to speak Truth, and in so doing succeed or fail in varying measure.

    Truth itself, however, remains unphased. Truth is still Truth regardless of whether we speak it or know it.

    We do not create Truth. We seek (some of us) to discover & reveal it.

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192884144063168514

  • We created not only the science and technology of truthful speech regardless of

    We created not only the science and technology of truthful speech regardless of cost, but a disturbing percentage of the truthful statements about the universe, in a disturbingly short period of time. Which tells you how catastrophic it is that other people don’t practice it.


    Source date (UTC): 2019-11-08 19:21:26 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192884855329247233

    Reply addressees: @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM

    Replying to: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192884473257512961


    IN REPLY TO:

    Unknown author

    @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM So europeans invented ‘the science and technology, of truthful speech’. And once you sort of get your head around it, the fact that we invented everything else we did so much faster than everyone else becomes sort of blatantly obvious.

    Original post: https://x.com/i/web/status/1192884473257512961


    IN REPLY TO:

    @curtdoolittle

    @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM So europeans invented ‘the science and technology, of truthful speech’. And once you sort of get your head around it, the fact that we invented everything else we did so much faster than everyone else becomes sort of blatantly obvious.

    Original post: https://x.com/i/web/status/1192884473257512961

  • So europeans invented ‘the science and technology, of truthful speech’. And once

    So europeans invented ‘the science and technology, of truthful speech’. And once you sort of get your head around it, the fact that we invented everything else we did so much faster than everyone else becomes sort of blatantly obvious.


    Source date (UTC): 2019-11-08 19:19:55 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192884473257512961

    Reply addressees: @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM

    Replying to: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192884197154787329


    IN REPLY TO:

    Unknown author

    @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM And we only know it truthful because we have tested that is not false.
    Ideals don’t exist.
    Patterns exist, We can identify, comprehend, name, and describe their causality.
    In other words, “Don’t be a sucker for plato’s bullshit, it’s just as bad as theological bullshit.” 😉

    Original post: https://x.com/i/web/status/1192884197154787329


    IN REPLY TO:

    @curtdoolittle

    @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM And we only know it truthful because we have tested that is not false.
    Ideals don’t exist.
    Patterns exist, We can identify, comprehend, name, and describe their causality.
    In other words, “Don’t be a sucker for plato’s bullshit, it’s just as bad as theological bullshit.” 😉

    Original post: https://x.com/i/web/status/1192884197154787329

  • And we only know it truthful because we have tested that is not false. Ideals do

    And we only know it truthful because we have tested that is not false.
    Ideals don’t exist.
    Patterns exist, We can identify, comprehend, name, and describe their causality.
    In other words, “Don’t be a sucker for plato’s bullshit, it’s just as bad as theological bullshit.” 😉


    Source date (UTC): 2019-11-08 19:18:49 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192884197154787329

    Reply addressees: @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM

    Replying to: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192883761609945090


    IN REPLY TO:

    Unknown author

    @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM So only europeans created testimony regardless of cost, under realism, naturalism, and operationalism.
    And all speech is performed (created)
    All truthful speech is performed (created)
    And therefore we can only know truthful speech.

    Original post: https://x.com/i/web/status/1192883761609945090


    IN REPLY TO:

    @curtdoolittle

    @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM So only europeans created testimony regardless of cost, under realism, naturalism, and operationalism.
    And all speech is performed (created)
    All truthful speech is performed (created)
    And therefore we can only know truthful speech.

    Original post: https://x.com/i/web/status/1192883761609945090

  • So only europeans created testimony regardless of cost, under realism, naturalis

    So only europeans created testimony regardless of cost, under realism, naturalism, and operationalism.
    And all speech is performed (created)
    All truthful speech is performed (created)
    And therefore we can only know truthful speech.


    Source date (UTC): 2019-11-08 19:17:06 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192883761609945090

    Reply addressees: @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM

    Replying to: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192881626872778754


    IN REPLY TO:

    Unknown author

    @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM In the midst of that we may describe those patterns of causality, we may do so in testimony, narrations, storytelling, analogy, fiction, fictionalism.Europeans do so with realism, naturalism, operationalism, and testimony, warranty our testimony, and are liable for our testimony.

    Original post: https://x.com/i/web/status/1192881626872778754


    IN REPLY TO:

    @curtdoolittle

    @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM In the midst of that we may describe those patterns of causality, we may do so in testimony, narrations, storytelling, analogy, fiction, fictionalism.Europeans do so with realism, naturalism, operationalism, and testimony, warranty our testimony, and are liable for our testimony.

    Original post: https://x.com/i/web/status/1192881626872778754

  • We never know if we speak the ideal (complete) truth. And we can only do so unde

    We never know if we speak the ideal (complete) truth.
    And we can only do so under realism, naturalism, operationalism, and performative truth.
    So, one may only speak truthfully (performative truth).
    And we may testify that we speak truthfully (promise).
    So…


    Source date (UTC): 2019-11-08 19:13:36 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192882883041607686

    Reply addressees: @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM

    Replying to: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192881024012881920


    IN REPLY TO:

    Unknown author

    @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM A common problem that is the origin of most philosophical sophisms.
    Patterns of constant or continuous relations, including transformations between state, exist in reality.
    We may observe, name, describe in perceptions, describe in measurement-operations, or describe causally.

    Original post: https://x.com/i/web/status/1192881024012881920


    IN REPLY TO:

    @curtdoolittle

    @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM A common problem that is the origin of most philosophical sophisms.
    Patterns of constant or continuous relations, including transformations between state, exist in reality.
    We may observe, name, describe in perceptions, describe in measurement-operations, or describe causally.

    Original post: https://x.com/i/web/status/1192881024012881920

  • In the midst of that we may describe those patterns of causality, we may do so i

    In the midst of that we may describe those patterns of causality, we may do so in testimony, narrations, storytelling, analogy, fiction, fictionalism.Europeans do so with realism, naturalism, operationalism, and testimony, warranty our testimony, and are liable for our testimony.


    Source date (UTC): 2019-11-08 19:08:37 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192881626872778754

    Reply addressees: @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM

    Replying to: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192881024012881920


    IN REPLY TO:

    Unknown author

    @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM A common problem that is the origin of most philosophical sophisms.
    Patterns of constant or continuous relations, including transformations between state, exist in reality.
    We may observe, name, describe in perceptions, describe in measurement-operations, or describe causally.

    Original post: https://x.com/i/web/status/1192881024012881920


    IN REPLY TO:

    @curtdoolittle

    @Nalo_Nei @FreePeterBiarM A common problem that is the origin of most philosophical sophisms.
    Patterns of constant or continuous relations, including transformations between state, exist in reality.
    We may observe, name, describe in perceptions, describe in measurement-operations, or describe causally.

    Original post: https://x.com/i/web/status/1192881024012881920

  • A Letter to Africans on “Whiteness” and Choice

    [T]here is nothing wrong with Africa or “Africanism”, or White people or “Whiteness”. As in all things the problem is one of facing uncomfortable truths.

    —“Still on WHITENESS: Whiteness questions African epistemology simply because there’s no room in their normative framework to process this! I bet there’s a non-African you know who is an “expert” on African matters. …. [So,] Understand “whiteness” devoid of race. Whiteness is an ideology of domination. It’s diabolical. It’s anti- spiritual. Its anti-human. The more need to have it understood, deconstructed and demystified.”— Mudacci @FreePeterBiarM, Africa

    You’re lying – but largely to yourself and your people. The science has been suppressed since the second world war, but it’s finally emerged out of genetic research: (a) Europeans are genetically, informationally, institutionally, legally, economically, normatively, culturally, civilizational far superior to every other people. (b) Europeans dragged the rest out of ignorance and poverty. (c) And european failed to complete the project of evolving other peoples out of ignorance and poverty and into the rule of law during the colonial period, because of their civil war (world wars one and two). The “Dirty Secret of Western Civilization” is that because we evolved an entrepreneurial military aristocracy first, rule of law the only possible means of rule between entrepreneurial warriors, then markets for them to profit from by taxation, and of “government of conquered peoples” last, we produced “markets in everything: association, cooperation, production, reproduction, commons, polities”; including manorialism (you may not marry until you can provide for a family by earning access to land to rent from the aristocracy; you may not bear children until you marry); harsh winters; frequent starvations; taxation; the use of taxation for middle and upper class reproduction, and aggressive hanging (culling) of up to 1% of the population per year, until by the late middle ages, Europe was genetically middle class, instead, as are poorer peoples, genetically underclass. So european aristocracy “dragged everyone up” into the middle class, by (a) suppression of reproduction of the underclasses (b) redistribution from the underclasses to the middle classes – what they considered a necessity of survival given the economics of farming on the Eurasian plain. European Christianity creates commercial ethics, preparing people for prosperity. Islam does the opposite, and expands the underclasses, and prohibits intellectual, scientific, technological, legal, and economic classes, resulting in the destruction, consumption, and eradication of every great civilization of the ancient world: African (caucasian), Egyptian, Levantine, Anatolian, Caucuses, Persian, Turkic (Kazakhs,Turks), and Old Indian (Indus Valley), with only Spain and the Balkans reversing the Islamic catastrophe -although Spain still pays a price for the occupation, and the Balkans, unless forcibly de-Islamized will never recover. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH AFRICA There is nothing wrong with Christian Africa (non-muslim) that six generations of the one-child policy, and insulation from the corruption of the west, Judaism, and Islam will not solve. There is nothing wrong with African peoples. The underclass is only too large for the upper. The historical problem for Africa is the distance from trade and information because of the desert and the combination of climate and diseases without winters to give good people time to rest from nature and each other, and force them to work together to survive. This is the only problem. WE KNOW BETTER NOW THAN IN THE PAST White people and Muslim people are responsible for interfering with the development of southern-west Africa into an empire, the same way we were responsible for interfering in Mezzo-American empires. Had Whites not interfered, has the Muslims not interfered, then one of the empires would have evolved (we think) and power could have consolidated sufficiently despite the productivity of the land, to produce rule, bureaucracy, and institutions that would lead west Africa first and the rest of Africa later, into the long evolution into a hierarchical, political, and economically sustainable society.  But Muslims considered thought even less of Africans – given that Muslim Slavers had been selling uncountable numbers of Africans for over a thousand years. And Whites considered such people ‘barbarians’, because we did not know better, Now we know better.All peoples can rise if they reduce their underclasses so that (technical terms) “A power distribution of law, a Pareto distribution of resources, a Nash equilibrium of rewards while limiting the underclasses so that surpluses can be directed to commons. That sentence is the “Physical Law of Man” and there are no exceptions. So, Africans, like Indians who also blame Whites (who failed to complete the rise of colonies) but not Muslims (who made all colonies decline), or Nature (for climate and geography), Must Know Better also. Suppression of expression, discipline in mind, emotion, body, reproduction (sex), and soul; truthful speech no matter the cost; defense of life, property, contract, and commons no matter the cost; heroism, excellence, and beauty regardless of cost; extension of Christian love are not ‘white’, any more than physics, chemistry, biochemistry, biology, cognitive science, economics, and natural law of reciprocity are ‘white’. They are laws of the physical universe and the natural laws of mankind – neither of which we can disobey without suffering. It is true that only White people can create truth (science) – because of an accident of our history – but the truth is just a technology like any other. And ALL peoples can adopt the technology of truth – while retaining local festivals, food, dress, heroes. But the price for truth is not always one all people can bear. WHITENESS IS JUST TECHNOLOGY – YOU CAN USE IT OR NOTWhiteness” is “These are the thoughts, displays, words, and deeds you must demonstrate if you wish to possess equal qualities of life.” In other words: You must demonstrate middle-class majority behavior if you wish these things. Otherwise (empirically and logically) you cannot have these things. AND… because you will not pay those costs in thought, display, words, and deeds we cannot coexist with you in the same neighborhoods, jobs, markets, polities, nations, or civilizations until you do. AND… even then, our genetic (species) differences are such that for MANY of us, you (less developed peoples) invoke our disgust response. So even if tolerable, you are not desirable, and as undesirable we would prefer to be free of contact with you. Fences make good neighbors. Integration has NEVER been successful ANYWHERE, never will be – because it cannot be. All that results from European integration with less developed peoples is genetic devolution by regression to the mean – and the civilizational decline from doing so. And this is the PURPOSE of european man’s ancient enemy: to undermine and reduce Europe to middle eastern dysgenia, superstition, ignorance, incompetence, and … obedience. So stop being a useful idiot for our shared enemies. YOU MUST CHOOSE – FOR NOW, FOR THE NEAR FUTURE, AND FOR ETERNITY We do not want your love. We do not want your respect. We do not want to rule you. We want to be PROTECTED from bearing the costs of your lack of development unless we are compensated for developing you (as we were by colonialism). And your immigration is just an invasion that forces us to pay the costs – not you. It is reverse-colonialization, that causes devolution. Now, if instead of LEARNING, ADAPTING, EVOLVING, and limiting the growth of your unproductive underclasses, and paying those costs yourselves you want to LIE, to hide your genetic, informational, cultural, institutional, civilizational, underdevelopment (inferiority) you harm only yourselves. Or, you give the cancers of mankind: Judaism to undermine, Islam to consume, devolve, and destroy by the rapid growth of underclasses, you will continue to suffer. You cannot argue against this unless your argument is ‘yes, but we are the underclasses and we need this way of life to be happy, and we prefer a majority underclass people even if it means poverty”.  Then this is acceptable as long as you remain among your own, on your continent – a continent we will not touch now that “We Know Better“. But if you are, like weak people of low mind, lower character, will prefer to ‘claim victim’ rather than work, or not accept the price for majority underclass life. And if you make this choice to steal from your past and future, then this is your choice – it’s a bad one, but it is a choice we need not deny you. BUT YOU MUST PAY FOR THE CHOICE YOU MAKE – YOU MAY NOT MAKE US PAY IT But you may not bring this choice into our lands, among our people, among our civilization, and cause us to pay the price of your inability to change your inferiority. Darwin showed us the true face of the gods. There is only one universe, and a limited amount of time, and in that universe only one supreme god, and his name evolution: and transcendence of the animal man into omniscience and omnipotence, and if you fail him, you and your people fail for eternity. You may not also cause us to fail with you. If so we have no choice but to end you. –Curt Doolittle

  • A Letter to Africans on “Whiteness” and Choice

    [T]here is nothing wrong with Africa or “Africanism”, or White people or “Whiteness”. As in all things the problem is one of facing uncomfortable truths.

    —“Still on WHITENESS: Whiteness questions African epistemology simply because there’s no room in their normative framework to process this! I bet there’s a non-African you know who is an “expert” on African matters. …. [So,] Understand “whiteness” devoid of race. Whiteness is an ideology of domination. It’s diabolical. It’s anti- spiritual. Its anti-human. The more need to have it understood, deconstructed and demystified.”— Mudacci @FreePeterBiarM, Africa

    You’re lying – but largely to yourself and your people. The science has been suppressed since the second world war, but it’s finally emerged out of genetic research: (a) Europeans are genetically, informationally, institutionally, legally, economically, normatively, culturally, civilizational far superior to every other people. (b) Europeans dragged the rest out of ignorance and poverty. (c) And european failed to complete the project of evolving other peoples out of ignorance and poverty and into the rule of law during the colonial period, because of their civil war (world wars one and two). The “Dirty Secret of Western Civilization” is that because we evolved an entrepreneurial military aristocracy first, rule of law the only possible means of rule between entrepreneurial warriors, then markets for them to profit from by taxation, and of “government of conquered peoples” last, we produced “markets in everything: association, cooperation, production, reproduction, commons, polities”; including manorialism (you may not marry until you can provide for a family by earning access to land to rent from the aristocracy; you may not bear children until you marry); harsh winters; frequent starvations; taxation; the use of taxation for middle and upper class reproduction, and aggressive hanging (culling) of up to 1% of the population per year, until by the late middle ages, Europe was genetically middle class, instead, as are poorer peoples, genetically underclass. So european aristocracy “dragged everyone up” into the middle class, by (a) suppression of reproduction of the underclasses (b) redistribution from the underclasses to the middle classes – what they considered a necessity of survival given the economics of farming on the Eurasian plain. European Christianity creates commercial ethics, preparing people for prosperity. Islam does the opposite, and expands the underclasses, and prohibits intellectual, scientific, technological, legal, and economic classes, resulting in the destruction, consumption, and eradication of every great civilization of the ancient world: African (caucasian), Egyptian, Levantine, Anatolian, Caucuses, Persian, Turkic (Kazakhs,Turks), and Old Indian (Indus Valley), with only Spain and the Balkans reversing the Islamic catastrophe -although Spain still pays a price for the occupation, and the Balkans, unless forcibly de-Islamized will never recover. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH AFRICA There is nothing wrong with Christian Africa (non-muslim) that six generations of the one-child policy, and insulation from the corruption of the west, Judaism, and Islam will not solve. There is nothing wrong with African peoples. The underclass is only too large for the upper. The historical problem for Africa is the distance from trade and information because of the desert and the combination of climate and diseases without winters to give good people time to rest from nature and each other, and force them to work together to survive. This is the only problem. WE KNOW BETTER NOW THAN IN THE PAST White people and Muslim people are responsible for interfering with the development of southern-west Africa into an empire, the same way we were responsible for interfering in Mezzo-American empires. Had Whites not interfered, has the Muslims not interfered, then one of the empires would have evolved (we think) and power could have consolidated sufficiently despite the productivity of the land, to produce rule, bureaucracy, and institutions that would lead west Africa first and the rest of Africa later, into the long evolution into a hierarchical, political, and economically sustainable society.  But Muslims considered thought even less of Africans – given that Muslim Slavers had been selling uncountable numbers of Africans for over a thousand years. And Whites considered such people ‘barbarians’, because we did not know better, Now we know better.All peoples can rise if they reduce their underclasses so that (technical terms) “A power distribution of law, a Pareto distribution of resources, a Nash equilibrium of rewards while limiting the underclasses so that surpluses can be directed to commons. That sentence is the “Physical Law of Man” and there are no exceptions. So, Africans, like Indians who also blame Whites (who failed to complete the rise of colonies) but not Muslims (who made all colonies decline), or Nature (for climate and geography), Must Know Better also. Suppression of expression, discipline in mind, emotion, body, reproduction (sex), and soul; truthful speech no matter the cost; defense of life, property, contract, and commons no matter the cost; heroism, excellence, and beauty regardless of cost; extension of Christian love are not ‘white’, any more than physics, chemistry, biochemistry, biology, cognitive science, economics, and natural law of reciprocity are ‘white’. They are laws of the physical universe and the natural laws of mankind – neither of which we can disobey without suffering. It is true that only White people can create truth (science) – because of an accident of our history – but the truth is just a technology like any other. And ALL peoples can adopt the technology of truth – while retaining local festivals, food, dress, heroes. But the price for truth is not always one all people can bear. WHITENESS IS JUST TECHNOLOGY – YOU CAN USE IT OR NOTWhiteness” is “These are the thoughts, displays, words, and deeds you must demonstrate if you wish to possess equal qualities of life.” In other words: You must demonstrate middle-class majority behavior if you wish these things. Otherwise (empirically and logically) you cannot have these things. AND… because you will not pay those costs in thought, display, words, and deeds we cannot coexist with you in the same neighborhoods, jobs, markets, polities, nations, or civilizations until you do. AND… even then, our genetic (species) differences are such that for MANY of us, you (less developed peoples) invoke our disgust response. So even if tolerable, you are not desirable, and as undesirable we would prefer to be free of contact with you. Fences make good neighbors. Integration has NEVER been successful ANYWHERE, never will be – because it cannot be. All that results from European integration with less developed peoples is genetic devolution by regression to the mean – and the civilizational decline from doing so. And this is the PURPOSE of european man’s ancient enemy: to undermine and reduce Europe to middle eastern dysgenia, superstition, ignorance, incompetence, and … obedience. So stop being a useful idiot for our shared enemies. YOU MUST CHOOSE – FOR NOW, FOR THE NEAR FUTURE, AND FOR ETERNITY We do not want your love. We do not want your respect. We do not want to rule you. We want to be PROTECTED from bearing the costs of your lack of development unless we are compensated for developing you (as we were by colonialism). And your immigration is just an invasion that forces us to pay the costs – not you. It is reverse-colonialization, that causes devolution. Now, if instead of LEARNING, ADAPTING, EVOLVING, and limiting the growth of your unproductive underclasses, and paying those costs yourselves you want to LIE, to hide your genetic, informational, cultural, institutional, civilizational, underdevelopment (inferiority) you harm only yourselves. Or, you give the cancers of mankind: Judaism to undermine, Islam to consume, devolve, and destroy by the rapid growth of underclasses, you will continue to suffer. You cannot argue against this unless your argument is ‘yes, but we are the underclasses and we need this way of life to be happy, and we prefer a majority underclass people even if it means poverty”.  Then this is acceptable as long as you remain among your own, on your continent – a continent we will not touch now that “We Know Better“. But if you are, like weak people of low mind, lower character, will prefer to ‘claim victim’ rather than work, or not accept the price for majority underclass life. And if you make this choice to steal from your past and future, then this is your choice – it’s a bad one, but it is a choice we need not deny you. BUT YOU MUST PAY FOR THE CHOICE YOU MAKE – YOU MAY NOT MAKE US PAY IT But you may not bring this choice into our lands, among our people, among our civilization, and cause us to pay the price of your inability to change your inferiority. Darwin showed us the true face of the gods. There is only one universe, and a limited amount of time, and in that universe only one supreme god, and his name evolution: and transcendence of the animal man into omniscience and omnipotence, and if you fail him, you and your people fail for eternity. You may not also cause us to fail with you. If so we have no choice but to end you. –Curt Doolittle