ART ISN”T THAT HARD TO PRICE – IT’S HARD TO LIQUIDATE QUICKLY
—“…Value of art varies….”—
Hmmmm…. One can objectively compare art, particularly by triangulation. One can, with some skill, estimate its current market value by RANGE – dealers are relatively good at it. But doing so requires a rather great deal of knowledge of the pieces in the inventory whether on market or not. When talking of rarities (culturally, technically, or aesthetically significant pieces, or pieces from an artist), one has to understand the liquidity of customers and their incentives. Houses are less ridiculous, and more likely to take a loss, but follow the same general rules. Fashion less ridiculous than houses, but following the same general rules. Ergo, “All Stereotypes Are True”, “Class Stereotypes Are True”, “Taste Stereotypes Are True”, and one need only understand the relationship between Stereotype, Available Inventory, and Current Economic Conditions within that Stereotype. As in all economic questions, the more predictable the price range the lower the value of the service, commodity, product, item. Signal Value is Costly Regardless of Class.
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Our current parasite supporting system turns this agency sales funnel into a tractor pull. Every step of the way you have to carry more a burden. You have to recognize the costs being imposed upon you by the parasites are there because you are allowing them to be. Right now the funnel is not for weak engines not the faint of heart. “Fuck it, let’s just impose it” becomes a relief.
If we can get to where we can start to suppress the parasites, this funnel opens up to more and more people. We get to that wider audience.
photos_and_videos/TimelinePhotos_SxeO6JU-xg/46308130_10156777432192264_3649572524754206720_o_10156777432187264.jpg Hopper is still increasing in value/Morgan James MorrisonWhy?Nov 14, 2018, 10:58 AMJohn EdwardOne of my favorite painters.Nov 14, 2018, 11:04 AMJohn EdwardThe high end art market typically tracks the net worth of the 0.001%. So anytime there’s a stock market bubble, art auctions for every artist goes up by an even greater percentage (due to leverage).Nov 14, 2018, 11:06 AMJohn EdwardAlso rich people use art as a way to “park” their money in a tax sheltered asset.Nov 14, 2018, 11:07 AMCurt Doolittle^Yep.Nov 14, 2018, 11:07 AMCurt Doolittlethe optimum economic indexNov 14, 2018, 11:07 AMMorgan James MorrisonAh ok, so its a “market” reason. i thought maybe there was some sort of psychological reason like people are enjoying art that makes them feel isolated because people are more isolated.Nov 14, 2018, 11:15 AMMorgan James MorrisonWhy Hopper’s art specifically is still enjoyed and valued so highNov 14, 2018, 11:15 AMMatt EvansThere are at least three categories of art purchasing
1) speculation – purely economic
2) for who else will notice that you have the piece – virtue signaling to others
3) for the personal enjoyment of the piece itself – taste, which is objective [see: roger Scruton on beauty]
Which do you think this hopper painting represents? For me, it’s not #3.Nov 14, 2018, 11:18 AMCurt DoolittleMatt Evans Well, hopper is … I mean, artists are artifacts of time and place and hopper is probably the best artifact of that time and place. The collector (collection owner) died last spring, and he was an entrepreneur that collected what he loved. there is a difference between what I would hang in my home and what I would state “yes, this is great art”. But that is the difference between taste and truth. Hopper is a great artist of his era, if not the greatest, one of them. He captured that moment in time for eternity.Nov 14, 2018, 11:21 AMMatt EvansCurt Doolittle But, for the sake of argument, let us say you provide me with a piece that is undeniably the greatest piece of modern day performance art. Or any modernist or post-modernist art, really.
Not only will I not place it in my home, but I will also tell you it is not truth, or, more generously, that the maximum amount of truth it has to say is that the “artist” is a sick creature that comes from a sick and dying society.
But there are many ways to say that, and reasonable people don’t think they are “art”.
being a product of a time and place does not absolve “artists” who create degenerate garbage; who demonstrate no particular talent at any particular craft
I don’t assert that Hopper is degenerate garbage, or is a talentless monster. I don’t even suggest it. The painting looks fine.
It doesn’t, however, strike me as the finest oil painting in American history. Or rather, if it truly is, that’s disappointing for America.Nov 14, 2018, 11:42 AMConnor WhittlawDo you come up with these ideas/metrics/etc by yourself or is there s lot of external collation going on?
For myself, I have few novel ideas, but am a great metric finder and collator for others.Nov 14, 2018, 11:43 AMCurt DoolittleBelieve it or not …. this is a subject economists studied in depth, and Gary Stanley Becker (where I get my use of supply and demand language in social science from ) wrote about it specifically.
https://www.amazon.com/Economic-Approach-Human-Behavior/dp/0226041123Nov 14, 2018, 11:47 AMEric BumpusThe first type of cryptocurrency.Nov 14, 2018, 11:54 AMArno KælandMorgan James Morrison Status signalling also plays a part in these art markets and the more super-wealthy there are, the more desirable the status symbols become. Cars and houses no longer really do the trick because even a mere ‘deca-millioaire’ can afford the most expensive new cars available.Nov 14, 2018, 1:08 PMAndy Ujku-DardaniaOne of my favorite paintersNov 14, 2018, 3:02 PMConnor WhittlawCheersNov 14, 2018, 3:15 PMEdward John WyattYeeee boiNov 14, 2018, 4:06 PMZachary BertCurt Doolittle yeah and it was supposed to be left to the Seattle Art Museum and we got fucked somehowNov 14, 2018, 8:41 PMKari Anne DorstadWow ill see if my accountant will write me a check !! Lol 😂Nov 14, 2018, 9:34 PMNoel FritschI.e., rich people are often stupid.
As an indicator, valuable. As an actual investment? Not so much.
Can chop suey or nighthawks dispatch with zombies?
Or be traded for the dispatchment of zombies in a post Petro dollar world?
Methinks not…Nov 14, 2018, 10:06 PMJohn EdwardNoel Fritsch what you’re describing are lower order goods and commodities. Those are bets on social breakdown, while art is a bet on continuing growth of economic efficiency and complexity.Nov 14, 2018, 10:08 PMMurphy CellCurt you should check out Odd Nerdrums new short film about Kant ruining art.
https://youtu.be/EcjVXBXn7b4Nov 16, 2018, 10:33 AMCurt Doolittlethank you for thisNov 16, 2018, 10:47 AMMurphy CellCurt Doolittle it’s good. You’ll dig it. I don’t agree with some of it. But he names the art police! And laments at seeing brilliant artists and former students dumbing their work down so that they can make a living. The documentary “the Mona Lisa Curse” by Salt old bastard Robert Hughes is amazing too. I loved that guy.Nov 16, 2018, 10:50 AMHopper is still increasing in value/
photos_and_videos/TimelinePhotos_SxeO6JU-xg/46308130_10156777432192264_3649572524754206720_o_10156777432187264.jpg Hopper is still increasing in value/Morgan James MorrisonWhy?Nov 14, 2018, 10:58 AMJohn EdwardOne of my favorite painters.Nov 14, 2018, 11:04 AMJohn EdwardThe high end art market typically tracks the net worth of the 0.001%. So anytime there’s a stock market bubble, art auctions for every artist goes up by an even greater percentage (due to leverage).Nov 14, 2018, 11:06 AMJohn EdwardAlso rich people use art as a way to “park” their money in a tax sheltered asset.Nov 14, 2018, 11:07 AMCurt Doolittle^Yep.Nov 14, 2018, 11:07 AMCurt Doolittlethe optimum economic indexNov 14, 2018, 11:07 AMMorgan James MorrisonAh ok, so its a “market” reason. i thought maybe there was some sort of psychological reason like people are enjoying art that makes them feel isolated because people are more isolated.Nov 14, 2018, 11:15 AMMorgan James MorrisonWhy Hopper’s art specifically is still enjoyed and valued so highNov 14, 2018, 11:15 AMMatt EvansThere are at least three categories of art purchasing
1) speculation – purely economic
2) for who else will notice that you have the piece – virtue signaling to others
3) for the personal enjoyment of the piece itself – taste, which is objective [see: roger Scruton on beauty]
Which do you think this hopper painting represents? For me, it’s not #3.Nov 14, 2018, 11:18 AMCurt DoolittleMatt Evans Well, hopper is … I mean, artists are artifacts of time and place and hopper is probably the best artifact of that time and place. The collector (collection owner) died last spring, and he was an entrepreneur that collected what he loved. there is a difference between what I would hang in my home and what I would state “yes, this is great art”. But that is the difference between taste and truth. Hopper is a great artist of his era, if not the greatest, one of them. He captured that moment in time for eternity.Nov 14, 2018, 11:21 AMMatt EvansCurt Doolittle But, for the sake of argument, let us say you provide me with a piece that is undeniably the greatest piece of modern day performance art. Or any modernist or post-modernist art, really.
Not only will I not place it in my home, but I will also tell you it is not truth, or, more generously, that the maximum amount of truth it has to say is that the “artist” is a sick creature that comes from a sick and dying society.
But there are many ways to say that, and reasonable people don’t think they are “art”.
being a product of a time and place does not absolve “artists” who create degenerate garbage; who demonstrate no particular talent at any particular craft
I don’t assert that Hopper is degenerate garbage, or is a talentless monster. I don’t even suggest it. The painting looks fine.
It doesn’t, however, strike me as the finest oil painting in American history. Or rather, if it truly is, that’s disappointing for America.Nov 14, 2018, 11:42 AMConnor WhittleDo you come up with these ideas/metrics/etc by yourself or is there s lot of external collation going on?
For myself, I have few novel ideas, but am a great metric finder and collator for others.Nov 14, 2018, 11:43 AMCurt DoolittleBelieve it or not …. this is a subject economists studied in depth, and Gary Stanley Becker (where I get my use of supply and demand language in social science from ) wrote about it specifically.
https://www.amazon.com/Economic-Approach-Human-Behavior/dp/0226041123Nov 14, 2018, 11:47 AMEric BumpusThe first type of cryptocurrency.Nov 14, 2018, 11:54 AMAaron KahlandMorgan James Morrison Status signalling also plays a part in these art markets and the more super-wealthy there are, the more desirable the status symbols become. Cars and houses no longer really do the trick because even a mere ‘deca-millioaire’ can afford the most expensive new cars available.Nov 14, 2018, 1:08 PMAndy Ujku-DardaniaOne of my favorite paintersNov 14, 2018, 3:02 PMConnor WhittleCheersNov 14, 2018, 3:15 PMEdward John WyattYeeee boiNov 14, 2018, 4:06 PMZachary BertCurt Doolittle yeah and it was supposed to be left to the Seattle Art Museum and we got fucked somehowNov 14, 2018, 8:41 PMKari Anne DorstadWow ill see if my accountant will write me a check !! Lol 😂Nov 14, 2018, 9:34 PMNoel FritschI.e., rich people are often stupid.
As an indicator, valuable. As an actual investment? Not so much.
Can chop suey or nighthawks dispatch with zombies?
Or be traded for the dispatchment of zombies in a post Petro dollar world?
Methinks not…Nov 14, 2018, 10:06 PMJohn EdwardNoel Fritsch what you’re describing are lower order goods and commodities. Those are bets on social breakdown, while art is a bet on continuing growth of economic efficiency and complexity.Nov 14, 2018, 10:08 PMMurphy CellCurt you should check out Odd Nerdrums new short film about Kant ruining art.
https://youtu.be/EcjVXBXn7b4Nov 16, 2018, 10:33 AMCurt Doolittlethank you for thisNov 16, 2018, 10:47 AMMurphy CellCurt Doolittle it’s good. You’ll dig it. I don’t agree with some of it. But he names the art police! And laments at seeing brilliant artists and former students dumbing their work down so that they can make a living. The documentary “the Mona Lisa Curse” by Salt old bastard Robert Hughes is amazing too. I loved that guy.Nov 16, 2018, 10:50 AMHopper is still increasing in value/
Well I mean, white men ADDED to humanity lifting all. But Adding women and underclasses to the workforce has not been an increase for men, it has been a redistribution from men to women and underclasses – a LOSS.
It is one thing to redistribute to your kin. It is another to redistribute to the enemy who seeks to eradicate you.
Empires capture trade routes. Monarchies captured productive land. Both centralize rents in exchange for increasing local economic velocity. Study of european castle distribution illustrates rather easily the exceptional relationship between martial+judicial and std of living.
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When I want to buy an overpriced company I open locations or offices or sales teams at its fringes. Most companies cannot tolerate a 20% decline in sales. If you can cause a 20% decline in sales you can cause an 80% decline in purchase price. Mostly because talented people will flee to you. This is why you want free capital, and not to create too much debt or take too much profit. Most companies extract rents and profits and debt to the point where you can’t use capital to extract high ratio wins through acquisitions of people, operations, and customers at windfall discounts. The number of long established companies I have bought this way would astound you.
