Theme: Decidability

  • (Casper: Correct ) This is also the weakness in ambitions for AI: most hard prob

    (Casper: Correct )
    This is also the weakness in ambitions for AI: most hard problems are not mathematically reducible, and worse are also insufficiently computable and computationally reducible. As such only real-world experimentation can produce the information necessary for further induction and deduction.

    While mathematical and computational trial and error is relatively cheap (compute), designing experiments, hiring and organizing researchers, and interpreting results is expensive.

    The same problem is extendable to applied AI’s outside of the sciences: most everything is ‘owned’ in whole or part by someone, and we exist by not violating those rules of permissibility. And we must pay the often high costs of making use of whatever is ‘owned in whole or part’.

    And lastly, we must observe external consequences producing both gains and costs that evolve from our actions.

    So the four worlds (domains): 1) mathematical and computable world costs, 2) the world of physical action and costs, 3) the world of assets, permission, and costs 4) and the world of evolutionary outcomes affecting us indirectly with benefits and costs.

    Economists know this intrinsically because we are overwhelmingly aware of the limits of mathematics and computation. And we prefer simulation. And given the kaleidic universe because of causal density, even simulations are not granular enough to produce other than experiments in potential variations. And we cannot ever predict black swan events.

    It’s clear that AI will improve all of these categories but the evolution of that process is increasingly difficult because the predictability of that hierarchy increases.

    It’s when AIs can solve all four domains then they become interesting. Until them is our mistaken use of them that’s a threat. πŸ˜‰

    Human frailty. πŸ˜‰

    Reply addressees: @cwilstrup @DrJimFan @AbzuAI


    Source date (UTC): 2023-06-29 02:31:15 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1674244106762047489

    Replying to: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1674104937632890892

  • “Q: Curt: Is Duty a via Positiva?”– Good Question. And good opportunity to expl

    –“Q: Curt: Is Duty a via Positiva?”–

    Good Question. And good opportunity to explain irreducibility in natural law.

    The confusion occurs when we try to apply the concept positiva (justification of a preference, want, or good) and negativa (falsification of a statement or claim of truth or reciprocity, or good.) This over-application of ideas is common when we are learning a new subject and aren’t quite sure of the definitions.

    So we want to conflate, positiva, true, and good, but that’s comparing apples and oranges. We just had this conversation with someone yesterday who couldn’t comprehend that you can’t combine True and Good. They measure two different things. The testifiability of words, and the result in changes in demonstrated interests.

    What you learn in natural law is that we work by satisfying checklists (like we do in courts), instead of trying to make judgments that are ‘good or bad’, which is how most of humanity is (unfortunately) habituated, trained and indoctrinated, and it’s even worse in philosophy and theology.

    We find the same problem with people trying to bring mathematics, set logic, and computational logic to the law, by trying to create logical ANDs ORs. You can’t. You can only satisfy the checklists. πŸ˜‰ IN other words, they’re irreducible. The best you can say is the checklist satisfies the criteria and therefore the question is permissible or impermissible.

    As for Duty, here is the constructive proof:
    Given:
    The Natural Law of Self Determination,
    Producing Maximum Cooperation and Minimum Conflict,
    By Insuring Sovereignty in Demonstrated Interests
    By Requiring Reciprocity in Display, Word, and Deed,
    For Both The Private and The Common
    Resulting in Necessary Rights, Obligations, Inalienations,
    Where:
    Duty, Truth, Excellence, and Beauty
    Are Inalienable Obligations.
    (Though it takes a bit to explain Excellence-Beauty as requiring our full effort with no shortcuts, in the performance of those duties.)

    For the individual, Duty is an obligation (cost) and Rights are a benefit (gain) and Inalienation prevents the abandonment(self) or deprivation(others) of either.

    For the Polity, Duty is not a via-positiva or via-negativa, it is a resource (neutral) like force, for enforcing via-positivas (truths, goods) and preventing via-negativas (falshoods, bads).

    I hope this helps.

    Cheers

    Reply addressees: @Dontcar25448459


    Source date (UTC): 2023-06-27 00:59:49 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1673496320412196867

    Replying to: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1673489684188614658

  • “Q: Curt: You say the science of the natural law of cooperation is a ‘via negati

    –“Q: Curt: You say the science of the natural law of cooperation is a ‘via negativa’ that provides universal decidability in what not to do, don’t most people want a via-positiva: to know what to do?”–

    That isn’t quite right. No.

    (a) The law consists of the method, logic, and science of cooperation, providing universal decidability in matters of conflict.

    (b) The law also tells us the optimum means of organizing human cooperation personally, socially, economically, politically, and geostrategically.

    (c) However, this law tells us that if we want to maximize our condition in this world, and minimize our conflict, that we must pay, and continue to pay, high cognitive, psychological, and emotional costs of self-regulation to do so – and not all humans, and not all human groups are able, willing, and sufficiently genetically, demographically, culturally evolved to do so. We are in fact relatively petty creatures whenever self image and status is involved.

    (d) As such a universal science of law and decidability cannot prescribe for people how they must live, but only advise them what the costs and benefits of their choices are and forever will be. We can only advise them to write constitutions that ‘do no lie’ about what is required (costs, consequences) of the preferences they choose. Because an illegitimate constitution means an illegitimate government that the people are right and just to overthrow and replace.

    (e) So our solution is in two parts:
    … i) “Let A Thousand Nations Bloom’ because different peoples do need different social, political, and economic systems that suit their state of development, and possible rate of change, with the population and institutions they have available to them.
    … ii) We have proposed the optimum for Americans specifically, The anglosphere generally, and for Europeans broadly, because (ethnic) Europeans already practice most of these behaviors and pay the costs of them (even if we tease the southern italians and the greeks πŸ™‚ ) – Americans certainly did pay these costs until the marxist-woke cult’s attempt at conversion from evolutionary truth and natural law to devolutionary lying and unnatural law.

    (e) Even within European civilization, we have produced a constitution with a set of menu items, so to speak, that satisfy the needs of left and right within left and right polities (states, city-states) without the more demanding requirements or the right, or the lower demands and ‘problems’ of the left.

    So it’s incorrect to say that we don’t recommend a via-positiva or a series of via-positivas, we merely say that you can create any polity you want, with the natural law you just may not lie to do it – so that people are fully informed that they will bear a lower standard of living and lower trust polity for having done so.

    But as we know, many people prefer serfdom, where their basic needs are taken care of, and any ‘earnings’ from the competition in the market are used for nothing more than entertainment and status signaling.

    Not all humans are fit for advanced market civilization. In fact – most aren’t. That’s the lesson of the European attempt to universalize the high trust rule of law nation-state to a world that can’t trust anyone outside of their family and so can’t take responsibility for the commons.

    I hope this helps

    -Cheers

    Curt Doolittle
    The Natural Law Institute
    The Science of Cooperation


    Source date (UTC): 2023-06-26 23:10:25 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1673468790632243200

  • WHY UNDERSTANDING THE SEQUENCE OF SETS, MATH, AND OPERATIONS MATTERS TO YOU. –“

    WHY UNDERSTANDING THE SEQUENCE OF SETS, MATH, AND OPERATIONS MATTERS TO YOU.
    –“I started reading “Math and Computation” which isn’t on the NLI list, but often recommended by Curt. I have no CS background, so a lot is over my head. But I’m picking up about 80% of it. It’s pretty fun, even as an amateur. I guess the relevance to NLI is that there exist problems that are very difficult to solve even with a computer. But markets are like computers that can solve very complex problems.”– Daniel

    Correct. Discretely computable atomic operations produce greater explanatory opportunity than continuous mathematical reductions So it’s more that unlike mathematics (continuous) and like computation (discreetness) markets identify reciprocal voluntary exchanges making use of the pricing system (time value of scarcity), by the discovery of mutual gains of time and as such continue the laws of nature (evolutionary computation of persistence, opportunity, innovation, adaptation) demonstrating the continuity between all physical, behavioral, evolutionary, and logical processes.

    –“I finally finished Math and Computation. The last chapter (Epilogue) is where he ties it all together in plain English. I recommend the whole thing, but especially the last chapter.”–

    –“”One of the broadest ways to informally define computation β€” indeed, the view that underpins the celebrated Church-Turing thesis (which is discussed more later), is as follows:
    Computation is the evolution process of some environment, by a sequence of β€œsimple, local” steps.”–

    –“Here is a partial list of environments with such interacting parts, which in all cases can shed their physical characteristics and be viewed as transformations of pure information:
    β€’ Bits in a computer.
    β€’ Computers in a network.
    β€’ Atoms in matter.
    β€’ Neurons in the brain.
    β€’ Proteins in a cell.
    β€’ Cells in a tissue.
    β€’ Bacteria in a Petri dish.
    β€’ Deductions in proof systems.
    β€’ Prices in a market.
    β€’ Individuals in a population.
    β€’ Stars in galaxies.
    β€’ Friends on Facebook.
    β€’ Qubits in entangled states.”—

    –“I got the spiritual epiphany by the end with the realization that all this computing stuff is just God and God’s laws and God’s own curiosity to understand Gods laws. God’s nature is algorithmic. So, spiritually it was ultimately a rewarding experience.”–

    Clearly, Daniel Understands. πŸ˜‰

    Now, how do I say the same thing without ‘God’ for those of us who simply see ‘The Laws of the Universe”?

    Cheers

    Curt Doolittle
    The Natural Law Institute
    The Science of Cooperation


    Source date (UTC): 2023-06-23 18:03:30 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1672304388738523143

  • WHY UNDERSTANDING THE SEQUENCE OF SETS, MATH, AND OPERATIONS MATTERS TO YOU. –“

    WHY UNDERSTANDING THE SEQUENCE OF SETS, MATH, AND OPERATIONS MATTERS TO YOU.
    –“I started reading “Math and Computation” which isn’t on the NLI list, but often recommended by Curt. I have no CS background, so a lot is over my head. But I’m picking up about 80% of it. It’s pretty fun, even as an amateur. I guess the relevance to NLI is that there exist problems that are very difficult to solve even with a computer. But markets are like computers that can solve very complex problems.”–

    Correct. Discretely computable atomic operations produce greater explanatory opportunity than continuous mathematical reductions So it’s more that unlike mathematics (continuous) and like computation (discreetness) markets identify reciprocal voluntary exchanges making use of the pricing system (time value of scarcity), by the discovery of mutual gains of time and as such continue the laws of nature (evolutionary computation of persistence, opportunity, innovation, adaptation) demonstrating the continuity between all physical, behavioral, evolutionary, and logical processes.


    Source date (UTC): 2023-06-23 18:03:30 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1672302727957717003

  • (Draft, in progress, saving for tomorrow) (script) “Q: Curt: What do you mean by

    (Draft, in progress, saving for tomorrow) (script)

    “Q: Curt: What do you mean by a formal operational logic?”

    I’m fundamentally an epistemologist and logician of decidability, and I apply my work to behavioral sciences. In particular, I focus on applying my work to historical explanations of our ‘errors’ (deceits) and then legal and economic reforms to repair them. And I do this to end the conflict of our age, and bring about a possible settlement before the deterministic war that will absolutely hurt us all comes to pass.

    What’s not obvious to you or anyone else, is that this solution to the formal sciences, unifies the sciences, meaning my work explains all the sciences in one simple model. So that means I’ve had to work across all the sciences and disciplines, which is why this effort was so challenging that no university would tolerate the scope of work necessary to produce it without publishing.

    One of the perils of my work, is that it’s extremely technical, yet because it’s of universally popular interest, everyone has an opinion – and speaks (like bots) out of pervasive ignorance, justifying their priors, but lacking any means of comprehending the subject other than their feelings of it. Conversely, you don’t find ordinary people criticizing mathematicians and logicians because the work is not only incomprehensible but unimportant to them. But I touch on ‘the frauds, lies, and falsehoods’ that all of us our invested in, and of course, people who agree need to spend a year learning enough to understand I’m correct, and people who disagree rapidly run from the first substantive argument demonstrating they don’t know what they’re talking about – of if (as we see is common on the left) the double down on ad homs, poisoning the well, and canceling by ridicule, outraging, shrilling, and shaming.

    So now that the research and development is done, and we’re working on the draft for publication, I find I can return to basic explanations. Partly to educate the willing, and partly in defense of the unwilling and ignorant, and partly to silence the abusive.

    List Explanations Covered Below:
    The Four sciences
    The Formal Science
    Positional
    Operational
    Constructive
    First Priciples
    Falsificationary
    Evolutionary Computation
    First Principles
    Disambiguation
    Testimony
    Decidability.

    The Four Sciences:
    1. Formal: Systems (Grammars, or abstract: ‘language’)
    That we use to describe the three other sciences:
    2. Physical (Natural): Continuous Mathematics (Before)
    3. Behavioral (Social) Discrete Computations (During)
    4. Evolutionary: Adversarial Simulations (After)

    Formal Science
    Formal science is a branch of science studying disciplines concerned with abstract structures described by formal systems, such as logic, mathematics, statistics, theoretical computer science, artificial intelligence, information theory, game theory, systems theory, decision theory, and theoretical linguistics.

    Whereas the natural sciences and social sciences seek to characterize physical systems and social systems, respectively, using empirical methods, the formal sciences use language tools concerned with characterizing abstract structures described by formal systems.

    The formal sciences aid the natural and social sciences by providing information about the structures used to describe the physical world, and what inferences may be made about them.

    In other words, universal grammar is trivial, consisting of rules of continuos recursive disabmiguation by a combination of names that refer to states (nouns, adjectives) or transformations (verbs, adverbs), and agreements (agree/disagree yes/no, true/false).

    As such all systems (grammars of paradigms vocabulary and syntax) from mathematics to procedures, to testimony to ordinary language, fiction to fictionalisms, to lying, to sedition are variations in permissible references that are consistent and correspondent … or not.

    I understand this can be difficult to understand. But what it means is langauge consists of a stream of measurements using the human body, senses, perceptions, and intuitions, and instruments(tools) as ‘natural measurements’. And that we can speak in very precise, practical, or deceptive measurements. And that all human disciplines are constructed of the universal grammar of continuous recursive disambiguation, with nothing other than names of states, changes in state, and tests of equality (agreement). In other words everything we say and do can be imagined as increasingly non-cardinal mathematics.

    (Nominally) Positional Systems of Measurement by Triangulation
    Cardinal vs Ordinal vs Nominal vs Nominally Positional:
    Cardinal (…)
    Ordinal (…)
    Nominal (…)
    Positional (…)
    Triangulation (…)

    Operational (Actions)
    An Operational Logic is a system of logic requiring that all statements must consist of a sequence of objectively (physical) and subjectively(logical) operations that are testable by possibility and repeatability by man.

    Constructive
    A constructive logic is a system of logic stating that mathematical or logical statements are true only when they can be constructed, and as such, proved.

    Falsificationary (Survival)
    (…)
    Evolutionary Computation
    (…)
    First Principles
    (…)
    Disambiguation
    (…)
    Testimony
    (…)
    Decidability.

    Cheers


    Source date (UTC): 2023-06-23 02:18:29 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1672066564600807425

  • The only kind of person that would pursue exhaustion of undecidability as I have

    The only kind of person that would pursue exhaustion of undecidability as I have in producing the method, grammars, science, and the law, is one who exhausts all possibility of error before coming to a conclusion.

    And yes, you probably would call that stubborn. πŸ˜‰

    I call it…


    Source date (UTC): 2023-06-21 14:44:24 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1671529506341781506

    Reply addressees: @DanAnde23836316 @TheAutistocrat @PaulGottfried6 @ConceptualJames

    Replying to: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1671524155945111553

  • We are sworn to protect the constitution of the united states, not the governmen

    We are sworn to protect the constitution of the united states, not the government – and that’s for a very good reason. The constitution *IS* our means of decidability. Meaning the constitution rules. Period. And the constitution is the product of the people for the people, and the government ostensibly works for us – although that’s come to an end outside of the military, and the right side of the court.


    Source date (UTC): 2023-06-15 21:58:23 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1669464395838115844

  • How can that be true if prediction is limited to mathematical reducibility? Inst

    How can that be true if prediction is limited to mathematical reducibility? Instead, the question is whether evidence is explainable from first principles: operational (computational) reducibility.


    Source date (UTC): 2023-06-14 16:30:59 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1669019612334235654

    Reply addressees: @kanukistani

    Replying to: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1669014255335505923

  • Everyone wants to define The Work by what they find important in it. What’s impo

    Everyone wants to define The Work by what they find important in it. What’s important in the work is universal commensurable, value netural, decidability. The rest is application of that decidability to the scope of human knowledge and experience. The most present and urgent application is the resolution of the conflict stared by the second abrahamic revolution, this time by pseudoscience instead of supernaturalism. Unfortunately given the introduction of women in to economy and polity, and given women are biased to magical thinking and hyperconsumption and evasion of responsibility for the commons, then between the left and the pool of easily captured women, this speudoscience is as hard to stop as christian religion was hard to stop, because women both want it and there is a population of beta males desirous of the following of those women.

    Reply addressees: @WalterIII @ThruTheHayes


    Source date (UTC): 2023-06-14 15:42:08 UTC

    Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1669007321853317120

    Replying to: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1668846049799344128