Form: Humor

(NLI Humor)

Debating the use of the phrase “violating a law of nature”. Martin argues it’s impossible and we need a another term. (Martin has made me aware of the degree to which I think in mathematical and programming terms – words as functions – combined with our attempt to generalize a concept across fields. And that this doesn’t always translate intuitively when we need precise language closed to errors of inference.

Excerpt from much longer conversation:
( … )

Heimdallr Alfader
Some costs are immediate like jumping off a building and others take time like flying a spaceship into the sun.

In economics as another example enough pressure has to build up and if you don’t go beyond a point of no return you can reel things back so it gives the illusion of a violation of a law.

Curt Doolittle
This is what I am referring to. There is some grammatical precision here… I can violate any law but there is a cost to doing so vs i cannot violate any law though attempting to imposes a cost. But I must know a law to violate it? Or not? I cannot attempt or expect to violate that which I do not know of. So I mean, what’s the neutral phrasing?
12m

Martin Štěpán
No, again, you cannot violate a law. The law predicts that you will eventually fall back to the ground and that’s exactly what happens.

When you fly in an airplane, nothing is being violated either because all the costs required to stay up in the air are paid.

Heimdallr Alfader
Using the term violation is a conflation of law of tort with laws of nature I think.

Curt Doolittle
This might be correct. Let’s work on this direction. What about “Defy” or “Contradict”? Contradict almost certainly. The literature uses ‘defy’ for temporary attempts to circumvent laws of nature. It implies that natural laws can be ‘challenged’ but not defeated.

“Use “defy” when emphasizing human hubris or rhetorical impact. Avoid it when precision is paramount; opt for “contradict” or a similarly neutral term to maintain clarity.”

So Defy when it’s specific attempts to circumvent, and contradict in all other cases?

Martin wins this one. lol. (F*** you Martin…. lol -hugs) 😉

Martin Štěpán
This is the point. You can attempt to defy the laws of nature but you won’t because you can’t.

Curt Doolittle
F***ing guy is more precise with his second langauge than I am with my fist… dammit. lolz

Martin Štěpán
>>>Martin wins this one. lol. (F*** you Martin…. lol -hugs) 😉

Not even keeping score, lol.

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See? This is what it’s like working with this crew? Sigh. 😉 lol