photos_and_videos/TimelinePhotos_43196237263/42292003_10156655183882264_34059917

photos_and_videos/TimelinePhotos_43196237263/42292003_10156655183882264_3405991718078644224_o_10156655183877264.jpg Gen Patton did extensive study and competition with swords, and as far as I know his mixture of saber and rapier is the final word on the matter if for no other reason than we don’t chop while riding on horses any longer. I have used foil, rapier, and saber and while one can exert more force with a saber, the rapier, it’s length, and it’s double edge simply mean that opponents are kept at a distance, and you are much, much faster than they are. The basic utility of the Machete, Saxon, Bowie are fantastic, but they are closer ranged weapons than the fast sword. While we all love our longswords they are primarily for use against armor, and gave way to harder metal with faster swords upon the arrival of gunpowder. And the saber was eventually replaced by a second pistol when soldiers could afford it.

Why? Well, i see a lot of knife and machete fights in the world thanks to the ubiquity of smart phones. Apparently no one in the third world has learned two fight with swords.Sascha Alexander GünterGood Swords are expensive, machetes are notSep 22, 2018 3:14pmDaniel Roland AndersonI thumbed through an old book on the lethality of edged weapons when I was a teenager. The officer that compiled the work noted that slash-type wounds, however gruesome, were far less lethal than stab-type wounds that managed to penetrate even a few inches.

This design fits with the lethality analysis.

Now, the analysis changes with knives if the Martial Blade Concepts people are correct, and a “stop” with a knife means severing nerves and tendons of an opponent and is less concerned with lethality.

Slashing/cutting is more important to immobilize an opponent at close range.

Makes sense.Sep 22, 2018 3:14pmSascha Alexander GünterMe personally, i like my katana. The edge is much harder than most swords, so it doesnt dull. I use it to shave, so its kinda important to have good edge retentionSep 22, 2018 3:15pmCroib MagaSaying “long swords are primarily for use against armor” is a lot like saying “paint was made primarily for use on canvas.”

Long swords spanned a long time and had many different roles, and the majority of material instructing their use is intended for unarmored combat.Sep 22, 2018 3:18pmSascha Alexander GünterIn the end, swords are just sharp edged metal rods. Nothing magic about that. There are heavy ones, light, short, long, curved, straight ones….

But yea. Id prefer a long and light one.Sep 22, 2018 3:21pmCurt Doolittlewhy were they replaced?Sep 22, 2018 3:28pmCurt DoolittleThe problem with light and fast is getting from bronze, to iron, to poor steel to crucible steel.Sep 22, 2018 3:47pmCroib MagaThey were difficult to construct and required much more specialized bladesmiths, and were a relic of an era where military combat and civilian combat resembled each other. Changing attitudes about aesthetics, shaped by every facet of that looooooong ass 16th century. Even then, hard bitten longsword guys held on into the 17th century, ie George Silver.Sep 22, 2018 4:05pmGuido TomassiniSwords are useless against armour (except gambeson), they were used as a secondary/self defence weapon, where people wasn’t wearing protection. In the battlefield one would use a spear, hammer, axe, etc.

And about the post, do not forget that those machetes and knifes come from China or other industrial places, the third world can’t even make their own weapons.Sep 22, 2018 4:11pmCroib MagaThe longsword intended for armored combat (plates, that is) often had a diamond cross section and were pretty stiff, made even stiffer by gripping the sword halfway down the blade. These swords were also very tapered to find areas protected by mailled and used to stab those areas, even pop apart links if possible.

“Swords are useless against armor”

That is a blanket statement that ignores the many different kinds of swords intended for use against armor.Sep 22, 2018 4:12pmGuido TomassiniWell, yes, it’s an overstatement, but the fact is that if you want to kill someone in armour, even a one handed hammer is way better than any sword.Sep 22, 2018 4:15pmCroib MagaTo answer your question precisely, Curt, each of their roles were eventually and slowly filled by other weapons that could do the respective jobs better.Sep 22, 2018 4:16pmCroib MagaIf we were cap a pie in 1400 armor, I had an Oakeshotte type XVIII, and you had a ball peen, I would kill you so goddamn fastSep 22, 2018 4:18pmGarioch MacYoostingreat observationsSep 22, 2018 4:39pmAlton R. Hughes IIhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9qJBGlChcXUSep 22, 2018 5:22pmEric BumpusDo you watch “forged in fire”? Great show!Sep 22, 2018 5:43pmBill JoslinLearned this when living in the bush with a large population of feral dogs.

Swiping, swinging (slicing, chopping for an edged weapon) is easily anticipated and avoided.

Once the swing passes there is opportunity to pounce.

In short, don’t swing at an animal like you’re holding a bat, poke at them. It drives them back and you can easily “recharge” for the next “poke”. I expect this would be true for edge weapons too.Sep 22, 2018 8:13pmDaniel Roland AndersonWhich is why a decent spearman is likely to give a great swordsman a very bad time.Sep 22, 2018 9:19pmJared NeavesI had a heated discussion with someone when they assumed a rapier was better than a quarter staffSep 22, 2018 9:49pmKevin CoxWhich is why the sewing machine technique is so ubiquitous in prisons. Rapid series of straight forward thrusting stabs are very deadly and extremely difficult to counter.Sep 22, 2018 10:10pmChip SillsQuarter staff longer, can poke, bash and pivot quickly end for end.Sep 23, 2018 5:57amBrad JordanYeah this is why the pike was the epitome of melee combat. Control your opponents, control the outcome.Sep 23, 2018 6:13amBrad Jordanhttps://youtu.be/xuTU-Gby46MSep 23, 2018 6:14amAaron KahlandThere was an example in a Japanese POW camp (for captured Dutch soldiers). The Japanese claimed to the Dutch that Samurai sword fighting techniques were superior to those of European. In the camp was a Dutch sword fighting champion. The Japanese put their best samurai-technique master against him.

The Dutchman obliterated the Samurai and the Japanese were forever silent on the subject thereafter.Sep 23, 2018 6:47amJared Neaves@[1532420023:2048:Chip Sills] also considerably more lethal. There is a book that I can’t remember the name of atm that was written by a duelling contemporary that discussed the poor lethality of holes poked by rapiers compared to a good old fashioned bludgeoning or compared to a blow with a heavier edged sword that can deprive a man of his whole limb in one go.Sep 23, 2018 7:46amMark FuhrmanA calvary sword is best used as a slashing weapon.Sep 23, 2018 10:06amJim WaltersRead the works of Sykes, Applegate and Fairbairn have you? Amazing amount of knife fighting and back alley street fighting can be learned from them.Sep 23, 2018 11:23amJim WaltersCheck out the 1917 Indian Calvary Saber made by Cold Steel. It has all the features one would want on a modern fighting swordSep 23, 2018 11:25amDaniel Roland AndersonSome. Classic stuff.Sep 23, 2018 11:39amCurt DoolittleYep. that’s about as good as it gets.Sep 23, 2018 12:00pmCurt DoolittleI should have made the point in the OP that sabers are better for warfare (multiple enemies) and rapiers are better for one on one (duels), since while longer and faster, it’s a harder to use as a shield because it’s harder to create an area of control other than at the point of the sword. That said, recent example of a poke taking out an opponent in ten seconds is circulating on the internet, and there are hundreds of deep machete cuts that people survive.Sep 23, 2018 12:03pmGarioch MacYoostinYou may laugh but my fighting blade is a barong.You can stab and slash with it and really its a secondary weapon anyway.Sep 23, 2018 12:05pmBill Joslinhttps://youtu.be/afqhBODc_8USep 23, 2018 1:00pmNoah J Revoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3Wj6S2xE-gSep 24, 2018 4:29amJames SantagataI am addicted to Filipino knife and machete fights on Youtube, with a post-mortem breakdown by a Kali instructor. Mexico and China have some as well but more human wave attack stuff.Sep 24, 2018 6:41amAntonio E LoureiroCool, is there a link about it?Sep 24, 2018 8:02amBrad JordanLloyd is great.Sep 25, 2018 2:03amJared Neaveshttps://www.quora.com/Who-would-win-a-samurai-with-a-katana-or-the-European-swordsman-with-a-rapier?share=1Sep 27, 2018 5:01amJared NeavesI really don’t believe a rapier is a good lethal weapon.Sep 27, 2018 5:01amGen Patton did extensive study and competition with swords, and as far as I know his mixture of saber and rapier is the final word on the matter if for no other reason than we don’t chop while riding on horses any longer. I have used foil, rapier, and saber and while one can exert more force with a saber, the rapier, it’s length, and it’s double edge simply mean that opponents are kept at a distance, and you are much, much faster than they are. The basic utility of the Machete, Saxon, Bowie are fantastic, but they are closer ranged weapons than the fast sword. While we all love our longswords they are primarily for use against armor, and gave way to harder metal with faster swords upon the arrival of gunpowder. And the saber was eventually replaced by a second pistol when soldiers could afford it.

Why? Well, i see a lot of knife and machete fights in the world thanks to the ubiquity of smart phones. Apparently no one in the third world has learned two fight with swords.