That jesus will forgive you is in practice true – for rather complex reasons, all of which are scientific if your concept of deities is that they consist of information distributed between minds.
Source date (UTC): 2018-12-17 15:35:38 UTC
Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1074689583173025792
That jesus will forgive you is in practice true – for rather complex reasons, all of which are scientific if your concept of deities is that they consist of information distributed between minds. In this sense deities exist as numbers exist – and all of them exist. They have no control over nature but vast influence and control over the minds and actions of humans.
Source date (UTC): 2018-12-17 10:35:00 UTC
—“How do we repair our religions? Curt Doolittle, what do you think”—Muhamed Dukmak
(a) no more lies (b) make lies prosecutable in court so that the state can’t intervene, (c) prosecute liars for profit until there are no more lies. (d) let our religions adapt to the prohibition on lies, (e) try to organize new religions (which is likely to include restoration of our folk religions), (f) and let the natural self interest of all of us take its course.
Source date (UTC): 2018-12-17 10:32:00 UTC
THE INVERTED PYRAMID OF KNOWLEDGE
From Base To Top
0 – Mindfulness: Living as a Self.
1 – Religion(I): Living Amongst Men
2 – Lit(I): Understanding the Ambitions of Men
3 – History: Understanding the Limits Men (Reconciling The Reality)
4 – Sciences(K): Understanding the Universe (big, human, and small)
5 – Calculation(S): Categorization, comparison, Measurement,
Reason, calculation
6 – Skill(S): Understand Application in the service of self, family, others, man.
7 – Fitness,
8 – Fighting
9 – War
10 – Rule
Source date (UTC): 2018-12-17 08:25:00 UTC
CAN WE ELIMINATE RELIGION? NOT REALLY, BUT THAT REQUIRES WE DEFINE RELIGION AS MARKET DEMANDS RATHER THAN THE CURRENT MEANS OF PRODUCTION.
(repost)
—“However unrealistic of a goal it might be, wouldn’t the ideal situation be a world without organised religion? Or is there some benefit to religion that I’m not seeing?”—Dann Hopkins
Religion is just education. that’s all. Period. The ‘trick’ of both church and state is to claim church does no education, or that state education is sufficient.
We need training in physical fitness, mindfulness, manners-ethics-morals-rituals (payments to the commons), the laws, the means of calculating that we think of as the 3R’s, the skills to run a household, and the skills for employment.
It does not, as it once did, provide for physical fitness.
It provides mindfulness in the personal, interpersonal, and public spheres of life.
It provides the some of the manners, ethics, morals rituals that are the positive laws of the social order (not negative laws as is law proper).
It provides a venue for public contract making (this is my child, this is my promise to the community, this is my mate, this is our property, this person has died and his or her property may be distributed).
It is, to some degree, a computational necessity – meaning that it is very bad not to have that mindfulness.
It provides child-level parables and myths which are no less a form of calculation about action in the world than are laws, logic, and mathematics.
But there is no reason we cannot have lessons, parables and mythos and histories for each class of people at each stage of their lives, all of which contain the same messages.
There is no reason the church rather than the school, post office, or library is not still the center of civic life, and that government is not relegated to the production and maintenance of material commons, just as we keep commerce out of religion.
So I think I have most of this figured out – not that I am interested in the content in and of itself, but that I understand how to frame the problem, and restore the incentives, such that the second abrahamic dark age does not capture our people.
Source date (UTC): 2018-12-17 08:01:00 UTC
WE ARE MORE LIKE THE CHINESE THAN THE SEMITES
It is nearly impossible to talk to abrahamic monotheists what have not traveled the world and learned about other ‘religions’ because they lack the frame of reference to consider ‘religion’ as it is practiced.
The more I undrestand about world religions the more obvious it is that shinto is best, hindu a bit less so, and abrahamism the worst. While buddhism has turned into a religion, and stoicism on the borderline, and chinese folk religion, Taoism, Buddhism, Confucianism.
We practice our folk religion still in many ways. And like the chinese we have our germanic tales (hearth religion), our our many versions of our religion, philosophy, and our law.
That these are and always have been, ‘cults of the classes’ should be rather obvious.
The chinese are ostensibly buddhism but they are so as much as we are christian – not so much. China is confucian.
We are the same as china, not the same as the jews and muslims.
Source date (UTC): 2018-12-16 06:44:00 UTC
THE DESIRES OF ABSOLUTISTS
by Bill Joslin
I don’t think the absolutists are haters. I think they lack what they claim we lack – that being a foundation for meaning,. motivation -“a superordinate transcendental ideal to be subservient to”…
We have that – it’s called Career, Friends, Family and Kids.
They’re looking for meaning and inspiration.
They’re unestablished males seeking to individuate from “dad”.
The critiques leveled at us as best as I can see are a series of straw men and equivocations , but suspect their main recruitment efforts which are successful are build off critique of propertarianism (much like our strongest arguments are leveled against libertarians) – without prop – there would not really be much for absolutist to build their case on without going whole hog pomo.
Besides it’s a strange conflation of de Jouvenel On Power used to justify “charisma” (he who drives the idiom is king) as a “metaphysically” coherent justification for absolute rule (the idiomatic subterrain king) (which if you really thought about it – what drives idiomatic mimicking in society (fashion, fame etc) is often driven from the underclasses up (pop music, pop culture, thug culture etc)…
At least we understand why this is: omegas service as stress relief for the group – deferred aggression and initiation of play.
Why? Because that’s all they have to offer.
They’re not haters per say, just building a castle in the clouds and looking for others to agree it’s made of stone.
Now, I shouldn’t have said they “lack” what they claim we are lacking, but rather have said they are looking for (trying to construct) what they see we are missing.
But it kind of baffles me… For instance; aesthetics and transcendentals being required for motivation… Joel once said to me that having an aesthetic is propelling these young men toward excellence – working out, self perfection, career etc…. Yet under in the sheepdog group the things which Ivar is doing with is family business, of Alain is doing personally, or Bryan is doing locally… There are many of us driven forward by understanding the operational necessity of agency-en-toto .
It’s a simple if-then operation. If agency is at the root of this then I should build agency, if I value (xyz) then I should act (agency) …
This doesn’t diminish or reduce motivation to some materialistic or positivist frame (Anglo ontology as they would say) but rather demonstrates that aesthetics grounds into something more fundamental.
The result is a market for aesthetics – each moving in the same direction (increase agency) for their own personal reasons opposed to a grand unifying aesthetic.
Just seems like they’re seeking another monopoly – or rather seeking someone who has a monopoly on aesthetics and/or a monopoly on inspiration ( a leader )
You know…. “Anglo ontology can’t provide a transcendental” – yet I see that it is. It’s just not always a shiny, polished, sophisticated ideal… It can be mundane – like love of your family, or pride in work well done – it can be simple. And that is where I see their dissatisfaction – what we propose isn’t “special” enough. And that specialness they seek I think is the outward manifestation of young males seeking to establish themself via status symbols (specialness) at reduced costs (ideals over reals).
I have a great respect for and see them walking the same path I did 20 years ago… That path leads here not over there.
Give them time, let them live, forebearence for what ever costs they’ll impose in the meantime… They’ll eventually meet us somewhere in the middle – all young men must individuate on their own terms (or it wouldn’t be an individuation process).
They’re my brothers too…. If anything it’s taught me what that patient yet irritated look on my father’s face meant, when I railed away at some stupidity in my youth.
Source date (UTC): 2018-12-16 05:48:00 UTC
No religion should require you believe a falsehood – only pay the cost of initiation and ongoing rituals in exchange for personal, interpersonal, social, political, and universal mindfulness.
There is nothing false in the natural law of sovereignty reciprocity, truth, duty, charity, and markets in everything.
There is nothing false in the elimination of hatred from the human heart, the extension of kinship love of family to the polity, personal acts of charity, and the exhaustion of forgiveness before abandonment or punishment.
There is nothing false in ritual thanks to one another, to our ancestors, to those who made our existence possible, to the natural world, to the universe, and to the universe’s god – in whatever form that might be.
There is nothing false in their parables, their myths, their histories other than their ignorance and vulnerability of time and place.
There is nothing false in the ritual training of the body, intuition(soul), memory(knowledge), reason (calculation), ethics, morality, the law, and the skills with which to prosper.
There is nothing false in that combination of of which will cause us, and any who likewise do the same, to transcend into the gods we have not yet made.
That is not a sentimental argument. It is the optimum order for human beings. There is none better possible. It’s just science.
Source date (UTC): 2018-12-15 19:36:00 UTC
(I know the religion thing is painful but I am very close to finished with it. Most people want a new religion. I want to restore the church and family as the central institution of our society, and eliminate the state-finance-consumption sector as a means of preying upon our people. To make that work requires another reformation. Not to the exclusion of the protestant one. But to restore a religion for OUR people. And it doesn’t mean I have to invent it. I just have to put the box around it to protect whatever is there. So i’m sorry if it’s offensive but it’s got to be done. Even atheists have a religion, they just can’t articulate it as one. And the one we have is dying along with the next generation.)
Source date (UTC): 2018-12-15 19:23:00 UTC
—“….you don’t seem to understand metaphysics. Deep myth and the unconscious are on a completely different tangent to most of what your work is about,…”— ]
It’s ok. But I think I understand just fine thanks.
Addiction responses to pleasure sources, particularly escapist pleasure sources are indifferent between humans. That which tastes, touches, sounds, appears, intuits to be preferable, good, useful, even wonderful, has little or no correlation to what is, especially cumulatively, good. It is not like our evolution has kept pace with our experiential innovation.
REST VS ESCAPE
Our neural economy is expensive. Managing our neural, emotional, and physical budgets is work. Hence why we – most of us – seek means of finding safety in or near, the pack or herd. Worse, those of us who spend greater effort suppression our impulses, and those who expend greater effort while resulting in continuous failure or at least stagnation, seek those comforts mentally, emotionally, physically, and economically and politically.
The civil society gives us rest.
The undiscovered valley (nature) gives us some escape and rest.
The alternatives give us not rest but escape.
And some alternatives give us no rest, but escape at the cost of harm to ourselves.
And some at the cost to ourselves and others.
ESCAPE TO IMAGINARY WORLDS
While it is true that many we can forecast many world, and assist each other in the forecasting of many worlds, and that, from these many worlds we can obtain ideation, and we can obtain the psychic rewards from investment in those many worlds, and that we can interpret the present in the context of those many worlds, the fact remains that we can do so with every possible grammar available to us. We can do so by planning a future. we can do so by daydreaming. We can so by conversing with others. By all sorts of play and entertainment. We can do so by reading. We can do this by ritual inducing. We can do it by social inducing – particularly in large groups. We can do so by drug inducing.
THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE GOOD – BUT THE BAD
The question is not how we produce these alternate worlds and obtain the results – looking only at the good of the phenomenon. But how can we prevent the production, and distribution, of those fantasies in those imaginary worlds that affect the present and future.
The evidence is what it is. And Study of comparative means of obtaining mindfulness simply results in the understanding that religion as we understand it – not as it was originally founded, or not as we can undrestand it today – is one of the worst things to every happen to mankind – in fact, judaism, islam, and christianity are second only to the great plagues. And even that it requires us to compare with our ancient enemy malaria to compete with those three religions.
There have been at least three dark ages. THe stone age, the bronze age, the iron age. And it looks very much like we have spent a century falling into the dark age of the steel age.
FOOLED US ONCE. FOOLING US TWICE.
We are at a precipice for our people and our religion is part of the problem, and our church has abandoned us to the third world, and our governments have done exactly as did the byzantines and romans.
They are dragging us into the only hell there is: genetic death.
Source date (UTC): 2018-12-15 16:45:00 UTC