Great question. No. Has to be in 2d space (surface) to qualify as rent-seeking. No interference underground. (Or above really).
Source date (UTC): 2020-02-17 01:59:17 UTC
Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1229223763436359680
Reply addressees: @MartianHoplite
Replying to: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1229222893172789249
No. Toll Roads Are Not Permitted Under P-Constitution https://propertarianism.com/2020/02/17/no-toll-roads-are-not-permitted-under-p-constitution/
Source date (UTC): 2020-02-17 01:47:04 UTC
Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1229220686671028227
—-“How would P-Law handle toll roads. More specifically, our current highway into Houston is a regular tax funded highway, with an oversized median between the two directional lanes… however they’re in the process of building a new toll road in the median & converting the current highway into a feeder road with all the hassles of stop lights. At present, it’s a 45 minute non stop trip on a publically paid for highway. How would P-law handle the govt changing our current highway into a toll road?”—Clinton McLaggan
[I]t’s a debatable and technical point, however, P-Constitution prohibits toll roads. While at first blush it would appear possible under natural law, its a violation of two criteria: first, the only necessary right of a commons – of movement in two dimensional space, and secondly: it’s open to rent seeking – a fee without contributing to production. In other words if you want a road you can build one, but you can’t create such a commons and extract tolls for it. Same for bridges. Not for ferries. NOTE: One of P’s prohibitions is non-exclusory use of property. Meaning you can’t wall someone out of access to territory. This is a very old common law tradition. If you want to wall something off you have to provide passage along the borders.
—-“How would P-Law handle toll roads. More specifically, our current highway into Houston is a regular tax funded highway, with an oversized median between the two directional lanes… however they’re in the process of building a new toll road in the median & converting the current highway into a feeder road with all the hassles of stop lights. At present, it’s a 45 minute non stop trip on a publically paid for highway. How would P-law handle the govt changing our current highway into a toll road?”—Clinton McLaggan
[I]t’s a debatable and technical point, however, P-Constitution prohibits toll roads. While at first blush it would appear possible under natural law, its a violation of two criteria: first, the only necessary right of a commons – of movement in two dimensional space, and secondly: it’s open to rent seeking – a fee without contributing to production. In other words if you want a road you can build one, but you can’t create such a commons and extract tolls for it. Same for bridges. Not for ferries. NOTE: One of P’s prohibitions is non-exclusory use of property. Meaning you can’t wall someone out of access to territory. This is a very old common law tradition. If you want to wall something off you have to provide passage along the borders.
(core) [S]cience absolutely positively can tell you about ethics and morality. And it has. Morality, including the moral instincts, consist in reciprocity within the limits of proportionality, where reciprocity consists of limiting our actions to productive, fully informed, warrantied, voluntary transfer( trade, consumption, harm, destruction, loss) of demonstrated interests free of imposition of costs upon demonstrated interests of others by externality. That’s morality. It’s got to be or evolution (physics) wouldn’t tolerate our existence as a species. There is no difference between physics (involuntary change), economics (productive cooperation), and morality (social cooperation), except we have memory so can invest in and borrow from one another across time (. All that varies is the level of immorality tolerated given the stage of development in the current military, political, and economic circumstances. So yes, science has told us what manners, ethics, morals, consist of. They cannot tell you what those range of actions will be in three years any more than economics can tell you that, because what constitutes reciprocity within the limits of proportionality, varies with the structure of production of polities, commons, goods, services, and information. So we absolutely positively know what the physical and natural laws consist of – because they’re the same – we can judge borrow from one another or invest in one another and punish one another for violating those investments and borrowings (thefts, parasitism, free riding), and we do so by moral intuition we call “altruistic punishment’ – the payment of high personal costs of punishment of others to preserve the high value of trust in cooperation (borrowing, investing) in one another, because of the impossible-to-replace returns on cooperation – wherever cooperation is reciprocal: productive, fully informed, warrantied, voluntary, transfers, and free of negative externality. And good luck refuting that scientific claim – because you will not be able to without violating it. It’s a physical law of conscious, cooperative, species beyond which no conscious cooperative species can survive. Evil < Immoral < Unethical < Amoral > Ethical > Moral > Good Quod erat demonstrandum Thus endeth the lesson. fin.
—“Why complicate everything? Just get rid of usury and that makes more difference than anything else will ever do. Capitalism/Socialism/Communism/Democracy are not antithesis – they are all infected with the same virus.”—Ian Beveridge
Because the enemy never gives up on the pursuit of crimes – so we need a market for the prosecution of crimes, by a methodology that prohibits even attempts at crime.
Source date (UTC): 2020-02-16 12:14:00 UTC
DEFINING PROPERTARIANISM – FOR NEWBIES
Propertarianism consists of:
1 – The completion of the scientific method and all that it entails – which is a lot and why P is such a big program: it touches everything and it converts almost all psychological, social, and political speech to economic expressions – which is counter-intuitive because it’s scientific where our current psychological social, moral, and political speech is only normative or in the case of psychology sociology and politics, both pseudoscientific and sophomoric.
We call this Testimonialism
2 – The explanation for western success in ancient and modern worlds (adaptive velocity because of our individual sovereignty and resulting traditional law of property/tort.)
We call this Western Group Evolutionary Strategy.
3 – The explanation of the different systems of argument used in the different civilizations, and in particular the abrahamic means of deceit used in the ancient world (judaism, Christianity, islam) and in the modern world (marxism, feminism, postmodernism, denialism/political correctness).
We call this The Grammars.
4 – A constitution, body of law, and attendant policies that restore the american, english, anglo saxon, germanic, western indo-european, constitution (contract among sovereigns) and hardens it from future undermining, by creating a legal means for the prosecution of crimes of undermining, including religious (jewish islamic), pseudoscientific, and sophomoric (marx, freud, boas, adorno, derrida, friedan, and marxism, postmodernism, feminism, and denialism/political correctness), as well as the financing of undermining by prohibiting rent-seeking, privatization of commons, and socialization of losses).
We call this a new or updated constitution.
5 – A set of policies under that constitution that form the most substantial political, social, economic, and financial reform since the roman era – restoring the civil society.
We call these the reforms: the policies under the constitution
6 – A set of Restitutions and Punishments that serve to return wealth to the american people, punish those who have engaged in undermining our people, and prevent repeats of undermining our people – or other peoples – in the future.
We all these the Restitutions
EXPLANATION OF HOW PROPERTARIANISM DOES ALL THAT
We create both the Positive Market for goods, services, and information in competition with and the Negative Market for Suppression, restitution, punishment, and prevention, of falsehood and ir-reciprocity by the Natural Common Law of Tort that evolves scientifically through demonstrated resolution of disputes in real world conflicts. So we create a market where people have the ultimate sovereignty (monopoly of control), liberty (choose your own destiny), and freedom (free of coercion) in a competition between market cooperation (the markets) and markets for conflict resolution (courts), as long as you do so by truthful and reciprocal means.
We had these rights through most of our history but they have been stolen from us over the past century – on purpose, to destroy our civilization.
But how can we (restore) our use of the law for the purpose of suppressing crimes against our people?
This is how:
Do you know what a formal logic is? It’s grammar of the logic of inference using sets and binary truth or falsehood.
Do you know what programming is? It’s a grammar of operational logic using binary truth or falsehood.
Do you know what law is? It’s a formal operational rational grammar of conflict resolution, using ternary falsehood, truth candidacy, and undecidability.
Do you know what tort law is? it’s a formal rational operational grammar of conflict resolution over demonstrated interests that we enumerate as property, using ternary logic of falsehood, truth candidacy, undecidability.
Propertarianism is a formal (strict), operational(sequential action), grammar (vocabulary, grammar, syntax, logic), of Tort (demonstrated interests), and as a consequence a value neutral universal language (vocabulary, grammar, syntax, logic) across all disciplines (physical science, language-metaphysics, psychology, sociology, politics, ethics, law, group strategy), that allows us to falsify (test) every possible dimension of human action, intuition, cognition, and speech, for both testimonial possibility (truth) and reciprocity(ethics, morality, trespass, tort), and as a consequence allows us to create uninterpretable (strictly constructed) constitutions, and their enumerated rights and responsibilities, the most influential of which is the conversion of free speech to free truthful and reciprocal speech, in public, to the public, on matters public (commerce, economics, commons, politics, group strategy) by extending the involuntary warranty of due diligence and involuntary liability for the truthfulness and reciprocity of commercial speech to that of political speech.
As such it allows us to outlaw hostile religions, and pseudo-religions especially the pseudoscientific and sophomoric restatements of supernatural judaism , christianity, and islam, in pseudoscientific and sophomoric and ir-reciprocal marxism, socialism, feminism, and postmodernism.
Propertarianism is equivalent in scope to the revolutions of Aristotelian reason (Realism, Naturalism, Reason), the Empirical Revolution(Realism, Naturalism, Empiricism), in that it completes the scientific method by extending it from the physical to the psychological and social sciences, including that of law, politics, and group strategy.
In other words, “Propertarianism consists of the completion of the Scientific Method; its application to the totality of human knowledge; producing a universally commensurable language of all thought; its embodiment in the common law of tort; resulting in a logical and scientific constitution; permitting the criminalization of ir-reciprocal and un-testifiable speech, and as a consequence the eradication of superstition, pseudoscience, sophism, fraud, and deceit from the commercial, financial, economic, political, and informational commons.”
REASONS FOR DISPROPORTIONATE WESTERN SUCCESS
When we explain the reason for western success we discover:
“Heroism and Excellence; Truth and Duty; Oath and Warranty; Sovereignty and Reciprocity; Law and Jury; And Voluntary Markets in Every Aspect of Life: Association, Cooperation, Production, Reproduction, Commons, Polities and War; The direction of surpluses to the production of commons and the returns therefrom; at the cost of suppression of the reproduction of the unproductive underclasses; and the Direction of Dominance Expression to the Production of Commons by a Distributed Dictatorship of Individually Sovereign People and the Reciprocal Warranty of Denial of Power To Any and All.”
Largely it’s just that we tell the truth – and no one else does.
Propertarianism is (a) the completion of the Aristotelian program (b) the completion of the scientific method (c ) the logic and science of the social sciences, and (d) the Natural Law of Reciprocity under which all display word and deed is expressible and commensurable. (e) and the means of institutionalizing in a “Market for the Suppression of Fraud” the suppression of the greatest crime against humanity: the big lies that are responsible for the last dark age and the new one that the enemy has sought to bring about.
Source date (UTC): 2020-02-15 18:22:00 UTC
NO. TOLL ROADS ARE NOT PERMITTED UNDER P-CONSTITUTION
—-“How would P-Law handle toll roads. More specifically, our current highway into Houston is a regular tax funded highway, with an oversized median between the two directional lanes… however they’re in the process of building a new toll road in the median & converting the current highway into a feeder road with all the hassles of stop lights. At present, it’s a 45 minute non stop trip on a publically paid for highway. How would P-law handle the govt changing our current highway into a toll road?”—Clinton McLaggan
It’s a debatable and technical point, however, P-Constitution prohibits toll roads. While at first blush it would appear possible under natural law, its a violation of two criteria: first, the only necessary right of a commons – of movement in two dimensional space, and secondly: it’s open to rent seeking – a fee without contributing to production. In other words if you want a road you can build one, but you can’t create such a commons and extract tolls for it. Same for bridges. Not for ferries.
NOTE:
One of P’s prohibitions is non-exclusory use of property. Meaning you can’t wall someone out of access to territory. This is a very old common law tradition. If you want to wall something off you have to provide passage along the borders.
Source date (UTC): 2020-02-14 21:10:00 UTC
Anyone who tries to deny others choice genetic purity, or impurity is mentally ill and not fit for motherhoood, fatherhood, or continued existence.
We either have the right to self determination – or we have the right to extermination. So choose.
I’m happy either way.
Source date (UTC): 2020-02-11 16:17:36 UTC
Original post: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1227265439400591360
IS P EITHER SUPREMACIST OR FASCIST?
—“Hey Curt sorry to be a nuisance, I have so many questions and concerns about propertarianism. I truly want it to work and to make it grow. Buy maybe it’s me over thinking or seeing things that are not there, but let me ask straight out.
1. Is propertarianism a white supremacist movement?
2. Is it a Fascist form of Government?
3. Will people be Slaves under it?
I ask because I see stuff that gives credibility to those questions but then I also see stuff from you and john that tend to counter that. I’ve pledged my support and my guns to you but I need to be able to counter these kinds of questions when talking to people as well as in my own mind. You are an amazing man Curt I truly appreciate your time and what your doing. Thank you for you time.”—
It’s none of those things.
If I call propertarianism “the scientific and logical articulation of the traditional ancestral natural law of the european peoples” does that answer your question?
Propertarianism consists of:
1) A methodology that completes the scientific method merging all the logics, sciences, narratives, and deceits into a universally commensurable language. In other words, we describe all existence as one continuous language (paradigm, vocabular, gramma) using operational language (semantics). This produces a universal system of measurement across all disciplines. (it solves EO Wilson’s predicted Wilsonian Synthesis)
2) A methodology for writing constitutions and laws in that language. With this methodology you can produce ANY political social and economic order you desire as long as you do so truthfully and reciprocally.
3) An explanation of the reason for western civilization’s disproportionate success at evolution in relation to other civilizations – that explanation is our accidental development of the most adaptive civilization that is possible for human beings to construct: soverignty.
4) A constitutional template that would restore that disproportionate success by reversing the harms against our civilization in the 19th and 20th centuries – largely by the second jewish revolt against civilization that we call marxism, socialism, feminism, postmodernism, social construction, and denialism.
5) That constitution allows the formation of many small states under a common military and judicial defense of the ’empire’ that each produce different social orders within that natural law constitution.
6) Some of those social orders will be separatist (by race) and some will not. Some will be conservative (middle) and some will be consumptive (liberal, top and bottom).
7) So propertarianism isn’t ANY ideology, it’s a means of creating political systems and separating by political system as suits our preference – markets in everything – just as was possible throughout european history.
So if you were to ask me if european civilization is superior to all others then the answer is empirically yes. If you ask me if european genome is superior to others than empirically yes, except for perhaps our fragile skin, and vulnerability to deception by the abrahamic method of deceit. If you ask me if I want to live (myself) in an homogenous ethnostate, but would like to visit other ethnostates, then the answer would be yes. If you ask me if every group of people should – if any such “should” exists – be granted reciprocal rights to self determination presuming they pay the cost and consequences of it, then yes. Because that is the natural law.
Propertarianism is just science expanded from the physical sciences to all sciences, including psychological, social, economic, political, and group evolutionary. Propertarianism completes the scientific method and allows us to use that science for producing social orders that suit our interests: polities as PRODUCTS.
Now if you understand this but disagree with it then you are absolutely positively a bad person and a threat to humankind and I will, and my people will, try to remove you and that threat you pose to human kind.
There is no more moral objective above this, because this is simply the optimum evolutionary strategy available to man, with the optimum freedom available to man – at the attendant cost of one’s choices.
The only alternative to P’s political solution is parasitism, predation, and war.
Which I’m fine with because frankly, we are really, really good at war.
So to answer questions:
1. “Is propertarianism a white supremacist movement?”
Propertarianism allows all movements to separate into states that pursue the interests of their people as long as they do not externalize the costs of their choices.
One of those choices will obviously be some number of ethnostates each claiming superiority.
2. “Is it a Fascist form of Government? “
(a) There is no definition of fascist other than intolerant, conformist, ethnic, nationalist, with greater emphasis on state investment in capital intensive industries that prohibits political competition to replace that form of organization. China is a fascist state. But it is also a deceptive state. The Italians and the nazis were not deceptive states they said exactly what they were doing and why. If you want to built an intolerant conformist ethnic nationalist state with greater emphasis on state investment in capital intensive industries using propertarian method of law, then you can. You just can’t do it deceptively. All china would have to do is be honest like the Italians and Germans. Russia is sort of half way honest. But is still a resource harvester not an industrial country.
(b) The constitution I have recommended is intolerant of competition against the political organization because as far as I know there is no possible competitor to that organization that is not a violation of natural law. That’s why I call it ‘perfect government’. This government is flexible in that it can switch between authoritarian in war, republican in growth, and redistributive in windfalls. The law is intolerant because it prohibits irreciprocal display word and deed, so it reduces one’s freedom to propagandize, bend the truth, lie, cheat, fraud, bait into hazard in public, to the public, in matters public. In other words you must be more careful making truth or good claims. This constitution also suppresses all the means by which our people have been lied to over the twentieth century((())). So it would crush the financial, advertising, media, entertainment, academic, and political sectors and transfer all our efforts in those sectors to non-parasitic, non-false, objectives – productivity rather tan parasitism. the result will be a new renaissance as capital is directed to truthful and reciprocal production.
3. “Will people be Slaves under it?”
Prisoners are in slavery.
Soldiers are in indentured servitude.
WPA (nationalized work force) are in indentured servitude.
Unionized and State Directed labor is in serfdom.
Dependents have freedom
People with capital have liberty
Some people have sufficient capital that they are at least functionally sovereign.
Chattel slavery (involuntary) is irreciprocal.
Indentured servitude exchanges responsibility for room and board for directed labor, minimal pay, and no right of exit.
The question is this: should we tolerate indentured servitude?
We do in public affairs (the military). But should we in private affairs? It is not irreciprocal, and if people did so voluntarily it is hard to say no. The problem is in modernity almost no one could afford indentured servants. So it is an unlikely question.
So in the sense you mean “are there chattel slaves” then the answer is a rather obvious no. 😉
Source date (UTC): 2020-02-11 10:47:00 UTC