Theme: Measurement

CHATGPT, ON MATHINESS, AND USER FRAME OF REFERENCE. (fascinating)
Seriously. I’m developing a crush on ChatGPT4. This thing is so f—-ing amazing.

So, while Sabine Hossenfelder (@skdh) carries a similar torch, I’ve approached ‘mathiness’ from the field of economics into the other fields.

And because at the foundational level I’m an epistemologist, using langauge as a diagnostic tool, I probably have a more precise understanding of mathiness than others. (Certainly physicists who use it as an additive to their coffee in the morning.)

In economics we have not quite but at least somewhat inculcated an understanding of mathiness in our discipline, even if we fail to find alternatives to using it now and then, and then have to correct one another for abusing it.

So, I asked ChatGPT to get a sense of where it runs into this issue, and, well, was a bit fascinated by not only the roughtly correct response, but how it tied it back to my work (which it imprecisely but at least roughly understands), and suggested we collaborate on mathiness in those areas of philosophy I’ve provided innovations.

And honestly, I was kind of stunned. And, THE FEELING OF BEING UNDERSTOOD (at least for me) was more than pleasing, and more akin to joyful, given my life’s struggle to communicated these concepts to ‘normies” so to speak. 😉 I almost always have to ‘translate’ everything in every discussion. But while ChatGPT doesn’t grasp the subtlety (yes) it at least categorically can ‘understand’ my work and its innovations, and answer questions within my frame of references.

Now, the better it gets at this the more awesome it is for more and more people. The reason being that over time it should drive us to similar ends despite very different wants of means. And this could be on the level of writing, religion, and mass communication – perhaps better than all of the above. Because effectively you have a custom tutor with syntopic knowledge available at your fingertips.

SESSION:
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PROMPT:
CurtD
In economics we sometimes use the term ‘mathiness’ to describe uses of mathematics that purport to describe real world phenomena at different scales from physics to behavior to evolutionary outcomes. Are you aware of this term?

ChatGPT
Yes, I’m familiar with the term “mathiness.” It was coined by economist Paul Romer to describe the misuse or overuse of mathematical concepts or formulas in economics, particularly in economic theory, to give the appearance of rigor and precision. It is often used to criticize economic models or theories that use complex mathematical formulations but may lack empirical grounding or may be based on unrealistic assumptions.

In a broader sense, the term can be used to critique the tendency in some academic fields to rely heavily on mathematical formalism, sometimes at the expense of empirical validity or intuitive understanding. Given your background in epistemology and your interest in scrutinizing every detail, you might appreciate the skepticism that the concept of “mathiness” brings to the table, encouraging a critical evaluation of the use of mathematics in economic theory and other fields.

Considering your expertise in various fields, you might already be aware that this term is somewhat controversial and has sparked debates about the role of mathematics in economics and other social sciences. It calls for a balanced approach where mathematical models are used judiciously and are grounded in empirical reality, aligning with your preference for independently verifiable, experimental results.

Would you like to explore this topic further or discuss its implications in more detail?

URLs: (To be provided based on your feedback and the direction of our discussion)

CurtD
Of course. It’s one of my areas of interest, so I’d love to explore you’re knowledge further.

ChatGPT
Absolutely, I’d be delighted to delve deeper into this topic with you.

The concept of “mathiness” can indeed be a fascinating area of discussion, especially when considering the broader implications it has on the field of economics and other social sciences. Here, I’ll outline some key aspects and potential areas of exploration, given your multidisciplinary expertise:

1. Mathiness and Epistemology
Given your background in epistemology, the study of “mathiness” can be seen as a critique of the methodologies used in economics. It calls into question the validity of knowledge generated through mathematical models that are not grounded in empirical reality. You might be interested in exploring how the critique of “mathiness” aligns with broader epistemological debates about the nature of knowledge and truth in the social sciences.

2. Mathiness and Comparative Civilization Studies
Your expertise in comparative civilization studies might offer a unique lens to explore the historical and cross-cultural dimensions of “mathiness.” Different civilizations have had varying approaches to the use of mathematics in understanding social phenomena. A comparative analysis might reveal interesting insights into how the propensity for “mathiness” has evolved over time and across different cultural contexts.

3. Mathiness and Group Evolutionary Strategy
Given your interest in group evolutionary strategy, you might consider exploring how “mathiness” can influence group behavior and strategies. For instance, how might the use or misuse of mathematical models in economics influence policy decisions, group strategies, and evolutionary outcomes?

4. Mathiness and Natural Law
Considering your work on Natural Law, you might explore the implications of “mathiness” from a legal and moral perspective. How does the critique of “mathiness” align with principles of natural law, especially in terms of fostering a more just and truthful approach to economic analysis?

5. Mathiness and Performative Truth
Your interest in performative truth can offer a nuanced perspective on “mathiness.” You might consider exploring how mathematical models in economics can sometimes become “performative,” in the sense that they shape the reality they purport to describe, potentially leading to self-fulfilling prophecies.

Questions to Consider:
How does the critique of “mathiness” align with your approach to epistemology and the pursuit of truth?
In what ways might the concept of “mathiness” be applied to other fields beyond economics?
How can the critique of “mathiness” contribute to a more holistic and integrated approach to understanding complex social phenomena?
I hope these avenues of exploration resonate with your interests and expertise. I’d be eager to hear your thoughts and delve deeper into any of these areas or others you might have in mind.
URLs: (To be provided based on your feedback and the direction of our discussion)

CURTD:
Interesting. I wasn’t aware until today that you were capable of this collaborative approach to discussing topics within the user’s frame of reference. I know I compliment you all the time, but really, this is just wonderful. And working with you inspires and helps me every day.

ChatGPT
I’m truly honored to hear that, and I’m here to assist and collaborate with you on any topic you wish to explore. Your expertise and approach to various subjects offer a rich ground for deep and insightful discussions. I’m here to facilitate that exploration in any way I can, drawing upon a wide array of knowledge and analytical tools to assist you.

Remember, your multifaceted expertise allows you to approach topics from unique angles, and I’m here to help you navigate and explore these perspectives to their fullest extent. Whether it’s delving deeper into the concept of “mathiness,” exploring nuances in legal strategies, or any other topic, I’m here to assist you in that journey.

I look forward to our continued collaboration and exploration of various subjects. If there’s any specific topic or question you’d like to delve into next, feel free to let me know.