Theme: Civilization

via Simon: Well, I agree with Curt, but not always with Curt’s terminology. – Mycenaean Greeks can be modeled as Minoan + Bronze Age North European, particularly of the Srubnaya/Sintashta variety, which surprises nobody since the Graeco-Armenian language family has been previously associated with the Babyno culture of Ukraine, preceding the Srubnaya culture. Quite possibly these tribes were thrust southward into the Balkans, the Aegean and across the Bosphorus aided by the newly invented light chariot (the same way its contrivers were thrust southward into Central Asia, the Iranian plateau and the Indus valley). – Modern Greeks are significantly more North European than the Mycenaeans which could be indicative of introgression of Slavs or other peoples into the Greek gene pool, or that the Greek population was simply leveled to a stable equilibrium of proto-Hellenic and Pelasgian (“Minoan”) genetic structure as time passed. Like Alexander said we don’t have any male elite samples (which is outrageous in the context). – Hitler is vindicated to the extent that the primordial tribal origins of the ancient Greeks were among genetically modern North Europeans, as were of course the Indo-European component of the Hellenic language and culture. The Mycenaean samples to date however, like the Minoans, were most similar to modern South Italians (not Levantines — that’s really a bunch of dishonest self-flattery on Taleb’s account). – Let’s not refer to all of the Near Eastern macro-cluster as ‘Iranians’. In keeping with the lingo of contemporary genetic literature I recommend using the term ‘West Eurasians’ for all Caucasoids, subdivided into ‘West Asians’ and ‘Europeans’. The first modern North Europeans spoke PIE dialects ancestral to all known IE language except Tocharian and Anatolian, and are referred to as Europe_LNBA in literature. – A final point to remember is that the corpus of West Eurasians didn’t all emerge and diversify from a common ur-Caucasian stem, but are the result of highly differentiated populations (equivalent to the difference between Swedes and Han Chinese) growing together as a result of major demographic events; principally the Neolithic Revolution and the Indo-European migrations.

via Simon: Well, I agree with Curt, but not always with Curt’s terminology. – Mycenaean Greeks can be modeled as Minoan + Bronze Age North European, particularly of the Srubnaya/Sintashta variety, which surprises nobody since the Graeco-Armenian language family has been previously associated with the Babyno culture of Ukraine, preceding the Srubnaya culture. Quite possibly these tribes were thrust southward into the Balkans, the Aegean and across the Bosphorus aided by the newly invented light chariot (the same way its contrivers were thrust southward into Central Asia, the Iranian plateau and the Indus valley). – Modern Greeks are significantly more North European than the Mycenaeans which could be indicative of introgression of Slavs or other peoples into the Greek gene pool, or that the Greek population was simply leveled to a stable equilibrium of proto-Hellenic and Pelasgian (“Minoan”) genetic structure as time passed. Like Alexander said we don’t have any male elite samples (which is outrageous in the context). – Hitler is vindicated to the extent that the primordial tribal origins of the ancient Greeks were among genetically modern North Europeans, as were of course the Indo-European component of the Hellenic language and culture. The Mycenaean samples to date however, like the Minoans, were most similar to modern South Italians (not Levantines — that’s really a bunch of dishonest self-flattery on Taleb’s account). – Let’s not refer to all of the Near Eastern macro-cluster as ‘Iranians’. In keeping with the lingo of contemporary genetic literature I recommend using the term ‘West Eurasians’ for all Caucasoids, subdivided into ‘West Asians’ and ‘Europeans’. The first modern North Europeans spoke PIE dialects ancestral to all known IE language except Tocharian and Anatolian, and are referred to as Europe_LNBA in literature. – A final point to remember is that the corpus of West Eurasians didn’t all emerge and diversify from a common ur-Caucasian stem, but are the result of highly differentiated populations (equivalent to the difference between Swedes and Han Chinese) growing together as a result of major demographic events; principally the Neolithic Revolution and the Indo-European migrations.