Form: Dialogue

  • What Do Marxism Feminism Postmodernism Have to Do with The Ignorance of The Current Generation… ?

    The Octogenarian Little Old Lady (criticizing): “Why is the current generation so ignorant?!” Me: “They had to make the generations ignorant in order to perpetuate the lie of Her: “What do marxism, feminism, and postmodernism have to do with the current generation being ignorant?!” Me: “Marxism to undermine compromise between the classes with straw man of oppression; undermining the compromise between the genders with the straw man of oppression; undermining the compromise between different peoples with the straw man of oppression; No one was oppressed in history. economic necessity isn’t oppression. conformity produces discounts, and unconformity imposes costs, and our people have been the very best in human history at producing those discounts.” Her: (Pause. Looking off into the distance.) “You think you’re so smart.” Me: “It’s a curse. And I gotta’ put up with all of you every … single … day … . It’s exhausting.” Her: (Head shaking). Me: “Score!”

  • Real-Life Conversation This Morning

    Dec 6, 2019, 10:44 AM Curt: “Men evolved for politics and think in bell curves, women evolved for children and other mothers and think in flat lines. We call it NAXALT. Not All X Are Like That. Women can’t help saying it. Its a test of feminine cognition.” Woman: “You can’t make a generalization like that. Not all women are like that.” Curt: Blank stare. Looks at floor. Sips from coffee cup. Walks away. Fking hopeless

  • Real-Life Conversation This Morning

    Dec 6, 2019, 10:44 AM Curt: “Men evolved for politics and think in bell curves, women evolved for children and other mothers and think in flat lines. We call it NAXALT. Not All X Are Like That. Women can’t help saying it. Its a test of feminine cognition.” Woman: “You can’t make a generalization like that. Not all women are like that.” Curt: Blank stare. Looks at floor. Sips from coffee cup. Walks away. Fking hopeless

  • Thoughts on Peterson, Wilber, and More

    Feb 18, 2020, 12:38 PM THOUGHTS ON PETERSON, WILBER, AND MORE by Michael Churchill, with CurtD Regarding Jordan Peterson and Ken Wilber: Wilber’s life arc is quite interesting and perhaps can provide a roadmap for Peterson post-nervous breakdown. Wilber was a bit of a mentor to Peterson and both men worked on the same problem: How to distinguish between internal truth and external truth:

    • Internal truth is what I feel to be true (including the realm of feelings themselves).
    • External truth is what survives falsification in real-world tests.

    Both men came to realize that the the strategy of the rank-and-file left is to deliberately conflate internal feelings and externally verifiable fact. (Hence the growth of the mantra “Well that’s my truth.”) When Wilber figured this out, he did the honorable thing and dropped out of the public eye for 5-10 years. Recall that Wilber was almost the Peterson of the ’90s: He started out a darling of the Oprah/Clinton set and was teed up to become a huge star. But two things happened: His wife got sick and his work started to lead him in disturbing, anti-left directions. So he dropped out of the spotlight. When he got back to work, Wilber embraced the implications of his own model and moved rightward. He lost his fey mannerisms and embraced the bearing of the college football player he had once been. My view is that Peterson’s nervous breakdown was caused by his failure to live up to his own extremely high standards. The man who won every debate was recently CRUSHED in a debate on his own website centering on a critical aspect of his worldview: That we are the drivers of our own destiny and group evolutionary strategy is not a relevant player in the game. (Or, more specifically, Peterson was arguing that there is no group who acts on an evolutionary strategy to deliberately undermine western civilization.) Peterson collapsed because he couldn’t escape the implications of this problem: He either had to admit defeat on this point and risk losing his empire, or accept defeat and ALSO risk losing his empire. Thus it seems the proper path for Peterson is to do what Wilber did. Drop out for five years. Recover. Re-work the model to fix its failures and keep what is good. Do not try to please the masters, nor necessarily challenge the masters in public if that doesn’t feel appealing. That is my $0.02 on the matter. by Eric Danelaw: This is a great narrative. Really has me thinking…. I wonder if you could weave campbell in there – as you suggested, as someone who didn’t have those problems. I’d throw in that the problem is jung-christianity where most of us use cognitive science and behavioral economics today. These fantasy literary worlds are disconnected from reality. He uses them because in his practice he can use suggestion rather than direct exposition to ‘seduce’ people to circumvent their natural resistance to correction by others. This is the entire value of suggestive experience (religion, theology, myth, parable, literature, history – suspension of disbelief opens us to suggestion by blame avoidance.) As for causality I’ll take peterson’s meteoric rise, continuous exposure, workload, wife’s cancer, and susceptibility to medicine as the principle cause – but I’ll agree with your consequence. Peterson wasn’t in a position where he could go thru a withdrawal that long in that condition without inflicting suffering on his family – already suffering from his wife’s cancer. And he couldn’t maintain public appearances, and he put his new found income stream at risk. And he had nowhere safe to go and recover. So that’s an awful lot sitting on your shoulders for anyone. But, what I got out of your post was … well, that it hadn’t occurred to me that i have no psychological dream world to run to so I have no psychological dream world to fail me. And that as such the stoics (mindfulness) and epicureans (live well), were simply right all along. And until you wrote this post I didn’t think that the opposite of these ideological and theological frames might be true: that they don’t provide comfort they provide sedation, so that the failure of the dream world is worse than the cost of learning mindfulness. by Michael Churchill Wow that is an awesome read. The moral of Peterson’s collapse is that building your house on a dreamworld — no matter how appealing and helpful in the short term — risks devastating consequences when it collapses. This raises the question of whether Peterson FELT he was building a house of cards as he was going along. It doesn’t seem that way to me. I watched many hours of his lectures before I ever came to your critique of him and I thought his work was pretty solid. Like his analysis of Pinnochio. That was good stuff. And his one-man war against the speech codes in Canada was inspired. Peterson’s only a few years older than me, so very likely he also grew up surrounded by the Joseph Campbell paradigm (follow your bliss etc). I think most people who came of age in the late 70s and early 80s walk around with a Nietzche/Pirsig/Camus/Campbell paradigm in their heads! And he had a professional career fully invested in the literary model. (Plus he is quite clearly a touchy/feely literary type.) by CurtD I never thought of it before but the Nietzsche/Camus/Campbell thing was definitely influential. Edit

  • Thoughts on Peterson, Wilber, and More

    Feb 18, 2020, 12:38 PM THOUGHTS ON PETERSON, WILBER, AND MORE by Michael Churchill, with CurtD Regarding Jordan Peterson and Ken Wilber: Wilber’s life arc is quite interesting and perhaps can provide a roadmap for Peterson post-nervous breakdown. Wilber was a bit of a mentor to Peterson and both men worked on the same problem: How to distinguish between internal truth and external truth:

    • Internal truth is what I feel to be true (including the realm of feelings themselves).
    • External truth is what survives falsification in real-world tests.

    Both men came to realize that the the strategy of the rank-and-file left is to deliberately conflate internal feelings and externally verifiable fact. (Hence the growth of the mantra “Well that’s my truth.”) When Wilber figured this out, he did the honorable thing and dropped out of the public eye for 5-10 years. Recall that Wilber was almost the Peterson of the ’90s: He started out a darling of the Oprah/Clinton set and was teed up to become a huge star. But two things happened: His wife got sick and his work started to lead him in disturbing, anti-left directions. So he dropped out of the spotlight. When he got back to work, Wilber embraced the implications of his own model and moved rightward. He lost his fey mannerisms and embraced the bearing of the college football player he had once been. My view is that Peterson’s nervous breakdown was caused by his failure to live up to his own extremely high standards. The man who won every debate was recently CRUSHED in a debate on his own website centering on a critical aspect of his worldview: That we are the drivers of our own destiny and group evolutionary strategy is not a relevant player in the game. (Or, more specifically, Peterson was arguing that there is no group who acts on an evolutionary strategy to deliberately undermine western civilization.) Peterson collapsed because he couldn’t escape the implications of this problem: He either had to admit defeat on this point and risk losing his empire, or accept defeat and ALSO risk losing his empire. Thus it seems the proper path for Peterson is to do what Wilber did. Drop out for five years. Recover. Re-work the model to fix its failures and keep what is good. Do not try to please the masters, nor necessarily challenge the masters in public if that doesn’t feel appealing. That is my $0.02 on the matter. by Eric Danelaw: This is a great narrative. Really has me thinking…. I wonder if you could weave campbell in there – as you suggested, as someone who didn’t have those problems. I’d throw in that the problem is jung-christianity where most of us use cognitive science and behavioral economics today. These fantasy literary worlds are disconnected from reality. He uses them because in his practice he can use suggestion rather than direct exposition to ‘seduce’ people to circumvent their natural resistance to correction by others. This is the entire value of suggestive experience (religion, theology, myth, parable, literature, history – suspension of disbelief opens us to suggestion by blame avoidance.) As for causality I’ll take peterson’s meteoric rise, continuous exposure, workload, wife’s cancer, and susceptibility to medicine as the principle cause – but I’ll agree with your consequence. Peterson wasn’t in a position where he could go thru a withdrawal that long in that condition without inflicting suffering on his family – already suffering from his wife’s cancer. And he couldn’t maintain public appearances, and he put his new found income stream at risk. And he had nowhere safe to go and recover. So that’s an awful lot sitting on your shoulders for anyone. But, what I got out of your post was … well, that it hadn’t occurred to me that i have no psychological dream world to run to so I have no psychological dream world to fail me. And that as such the stoics (mindfulness) and epicureans (live well), were simply right all along. And until you wrote this post I didn’t think that the opposite of these ideological and theological frames might be true: that they don’t provide comfort they provide sedation, so that the failure of the dream world is worse than the cost of learning mindfulness. by Michael Churchill Wow that is an awesome read. The moral of Peterson’s collapse is that building your house on a dreamworld — no matter how appealing and helpful in the short term — risks devastating consequences when it collapses. This raises the question of whether Peterson FELT he was building a house of cards as he was going along. It doesn’t seem that way to me. I watched many hours of his lectures before I ever came to your critique of him and I thought his work was pretty solid. Like his analysis of Pinnochio. That was good stuff. And his one-man war against the speech codes in Canada was inspired. Peterson’s only a few years older than me, so very likely he also grew up surrounded by the Joseph Campbell paradigm (follow your bliss etc). I think most people who came of age in the late 70s and early 80s walk around with a Nietzche/Pirsig/Camus/Campbell paradigm in their heads! And he had a professional career fully invested in the literary model. (Plus he is quite clearly a touchy/feely literary type.) by CurtD I never thought of it before but the Nietzsche/Camus/Campbell thing was definitely influential. Edit

  • A Little Debate

    Mar 11, 2020, 8:35 AM

    —“Morality is objective, reciprocity is not. Truth has no bearing on morality, reciprocity totally depends on truth”—Robert Danis

    i cant understand that

    —“that’s okay. I only believe in truth.”—Robert Danis

    i think you’re lying by pretense

    —“One person’s moral compass is different than another person’s moral compass. But the truth is a constant. example I believe abortion is wrong. Why? It not for a moral reason, it’s because in truth you’re stealing the future of someone else. My lens is different than yours I’m an American “I hold these truths to be self-evident” good morals are based on beliefs not truths. Reciprocity in my opinion deals with truth not the beliefs and not feelings. All of this comes from my background, look at what I did for employment.”—

    I can’t tell if you’re unskilled or dishonest. You are conflating moral(decidable, reciprocal), moral norm, and moral preference(choice).

    “…good morals are based on beliefs not truths…”

    Belief = Preference (arbitrary). Your preference of moral preference is based on beliefs and beliefs are arbitrary.

    “Reciprocity in my opinion deals with truth not the beliefs and not feelings”

    Correct. Morality = Reciprocity. Moral norms may or may not be in fact moral. Moral preferences are arbitrary and may or may not be in fact moral. But… disputes over moral norms and moral preferences may be decidable [by test of reciprocity].

    —“I will make it simple for you I don’t think morals have anything to do with reciprocity. I believe reciprocity is based on truth. You can disagree if you want but I’m not going to change because I only believe in truth. You do a lot of writing and say nothing. one person’s morals another person morals are not the same but truth is always the same.”—

    One person’s moral preference varies, just like one person’s interpretation opinion varies, morality like truth is decidable, which is why we have laws, and why laws express moral norms within group, and why reciprocity expresses morality across groups regardless of group preferences. Reciprocity is the structure of the world: personal bias reflects your reproductive strategy, normative bias reflects your group strategy, international uniformity of reciprocity in international law reflects evolutionary necessity. Not because we choose reciprocity. But because reciprocity is the only means of resolving conflicts. In other words, your opinion on the moral, your moral bias, or your moral preference, are just as likely to be false as your opinions on any other subject. The test of whether you are wrong is reciprocity. So: Moral (reciprocity) <- Moral Norm (group discovered reciprocity) <- Moral Preference-Bias (individual search for reciprocity) Give me an example of morality that is not decidable by reciprocity (other than abortion). I am very good at what I do. I am probably the best at what I do. I do not err. I am preventing you from making the false claim that morals are relative, rather than moral bias is simply a preference.

  • A Little Debate

    Mar 11, 2020, 8:35 AM

    —“Morality is objective, reciprocity is not. Truth has no bearing on morality, reciprocity totally depends on truth”—Robert Danis

    i cant understand that

    —“that’s okay. I only believe in truth.”—Robert Danis

    i think you’re lying by pretense

    —“One person’s moral compass is different than another person’s moral compass. But the truth is a constant. example I believe abortion is wrong. Why? It not for a moral reason, it’s because in truth you’re stealing the future of someone else. My lens is different than yours I’m an American “I hold these truths to be self-evident” good morals are based on beliefs not truths. Reciprocity in my opinion deals with truth not the beliefs and not feelings. All of this comes from my background, look at what I did for employment.”—

    I can’t tell if you’re unskilled or dishonest. You are conflating moral(decidable, reciprocal), moral norm, and moral preference(choice).

    “…good morals are based on beliefs not truths…”

    Belief = Preference (arbitrary). Your preference of moral preference is based on beliefs and beliefs are arbitrary.

    “Reciprocity in my opinion deals with truth not the beliefs and not feelings”

    Correct. Morality = Reciprocity. Moral norms may or may not be in fact moral. Moral preferences are arbitrary and may or may not be in fact moral. But… disputes over moral norms and moral preferences may be decidable [by test of reciprocity].

    —“I will make it simple for you I don’t think morals have anything to do with reciprocity. I believe reciprocity is based on truth. You can disagree if you want but I’m not going to change because I only believe in truth. You do a lot of writing and say nothing. one person’s morals another person morals are not the same but truth is always the same.”—

    One person’s moral preference varies, just like one person’s interpretation opinion varies, morality like truth is decidable, which is why we have laws, and why laws express moral norms within group, and why reciprocity expresses morality across groups regardless of group preferences. Reciprocity is the structure of the world: personal bias reflects your reproductive strategy, normative bias reflects your group strategy, international uniformity of reciprocity in international law reflects evolutionary necessity. Not because we choose reciprocity. But because reciprocity is the only means of resolving conflicts. In other words, your opinion on the moral, your moral bias, or your moral preference, are just as likely to be false as your opinions on any other subject. The test of whether you are wrong is reciprocity. So: Moral (reciprocity) <- Moral Norm (group discovered reciprocity) <- Moral Preference-Bias (individual search for reciprocity) Give me an example of morality that is not decidable by reciprocity (other than abortion). I am very good at what I do. I am probably the best at what I do. I do not err. I am preventing you from making the false claim that morals are relative, rather than moral bias is simply a preference.

  • Q: “curt, how Do I Learn Philosophy?” (repost)

    Mar 24, 2020, 2:13 PM Q: “CURT, HOW DO I LEARN PHILOSOPHY?” A: WELL THAT REQUIRES DEFINING PHILOSOPHY AND CHOOSING WHAT YOU WANT TO LEARN FROM IT. ( from August 7, 2015 ) QUESTION

    —”Hey curt, since you mentioned newbies. If an individual was beginning planning a self taught curriculum in philosophy, what would you recommend for sources? And does eastern philosophy like the teachings of the Tao hold any significance in your paradigm?”—

    ANSWER First, we need to define Philosophy. Which I think I can successfully do by stating it’s a set of ideas that assist us in forming a framework of understanding, whether by imitation of others – whether real or mythical (virtue), rules of conduct and decision making(deontological), or understanding of the mechanics of the universe(teleological), with which we can use limited human knowledge and reason for the purposes of acting to achieve needs, satisfactions, and fulfillments, by cooperating successfully in a world of others doing the same. THE OPTIONS This hierarchy of philosophies is important: imitation of virtue, dedication to rules, and understanding of cause and effect producing outcomes, place different demands on the individual. -One’s Experience- i – children and primitive cultures rely on virtue (religion) ii – adults in developing cultures rely on rules (law) iii – the wise in mature cultures rely on outcomes (science) This is the usual progression of one’s personal philosophy through life. As children, adults and at our maturity we make use of virtue, rule, and outcome ethics because that is the best we can manage at every stage of our development. This progression also remains useful, and is why wise me resort to “what would jesus do” or “what would such and such a great man do?”. Because that virtuous wisdom is, at times, the only possible means of decision making with sparse information. Just as we fall back upon rules when we are unsure of outcomes. Just as we rely upon our knowledge of outcomes to make decisions when we have accumulated the knowledge and experience to do so. So it is not a matter of choosing virtue, rule, or outcome ethics. It is a matter of acquiring each so that one can apply each in the circumstances where one possesses the information to do so – and conversely: one can judge the ethics of others by the rules they apply in each circumstance. A child who errs by virtue ethics is forgivable. An adult who errs by rules is forgivable. An wise man who errs despite his vast knowledge of a subject is forgivable. Yet the inverse is not true: a wise man who relies upon rules when he is masterful is suspect, an adult who relies upon virtue is suspect. A child who relies upon anything other than virtue is suspect. -One’s Abilities- There is a reason why women and people of lower IQ favor religion, why people in the liberal arts favor philosophy and pseudoscience, and why men and people of higher IQ favor history and science. That is because they possess the means by which to acquire and use those systems of of thought given their experience and ability. Furthermore, the acquisition of virtue, rule and outcome knowledge is costly to the individual. Not all can afford the investment, and not all have access to the literature or teachers from whom they can learn it. We do not expect feral children to demonstrate any of the ethical frameworks, and it is very difficult not to expect a first world child not to posses at least virtue ethics, if not rule ethics, and we attempt (possibly, if not probably, foolishly) to teach our children outcome ethics in the present era. -One’s control over one’s actions in life- Different philosophies whether virtuous, rational, or scientific are more or less use in different circumstances. We can break philosophies into: 1-religions, 2-disciplines 3-rationalisms(philosophies), 4-laws, and 5-sciences. It is very hard to classify any one of the bodies of thought below because all philosophical systems contain attributes of each category. I’ve organized them the best that I can. -Religions- (faith) — Christianity provides a body of myth and ritual with but one purpose: the extension of kinship love to non kin, as a means of generating universal inclusiveness. It is a religion of benevolent pacification cured only by it’s opposite in the martial nobility. Islam provides rules and virtues for people with limited intelligence to observe and daily rituals to enforce them – although this is a false promise since it achieves the opposite. I am uncomfortable commending on Hinduism since I am not sure I really understand it sufficiently (I see it through buddha’s eyes, as needing reformation), and all other ‘religions’ that I know of have been unsuccessful, or are obviously detrimental. Japan’s Shintoism combines both monarchy, ancestor worship and buddhism to produce fealty to family, clan, tribe and nation, as well as self control. For an homogenous people the combination of history, nature worship, and self control is hard to criticize other than the people are often frustrated and emotionally repressed. –Disciplines– (training) — Buddhism provides a means of achieving personal satisfaction for those who live in worlds where they have few resources, few options, little control over their circumstances. It focuses on the self. Combined with Yoga it is extremely attractive to women. Stoicism provides a means of achieving personal happiness for those who live in civilized worlds but who have little control over their environments. Stoicism is the opposite of buddhism in that buddhism achieves satisfaction by escapism and internal discipline, while stoicism achieves satisfaction by means of creating many small successes in daily life, accumulating in your achievement of virtue independent of the opinions of others. Combined with Sport it is extremely attractive to men. I tend to have a favorable view of both buddhism and stoicism. –Rationalisms— (reasoning) — Confucianism provides a means of obtaining satisfaction by conformity to fixed roles in society and providing us with wisdom for operating within those roles. Unfortunately Confucianism is paired with Sun Tzu: the philosophy of deception, and Lao Tzu: the philosophy of the poor within a hierarchical system. Together they advocate submission to authority as a means of avoiding conflict. Ancient Greco-Roman Philosophy – prior to Aristotle is interesting for the breadth of experiment that occurred in seeking a solution. I recommend The Ethics and the Politics. That’s all. Christian Natural Law Philosophy – Aquinas is interesting, but I would recommend skipping him, reading the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy entries on Natural Law instead. Anglo Empirical (Moral) Philosophy – Locke, Smith and Hume constitute the enlightenment philosophers of necessity. Continental Philosophy – is reactionary in order to compensate for the disorder produced by the errors in anglo empirical philosophy’s assumption of an aristocracy of everyone. So Continental is little more than an attempt to create a rational rather than supernatural justification of existing moral orders. There is plenty of wisdom in that philosophy, and great aspiration to it. Especially Nietzsche, who is the point of demarcation between christian mysticism and naturalistic philosophy. but it is also the source pseudoscience and lies. Cosmopolitan Philosophy (Pseudoscience, Loading, framing and overloading) Marx, Freud, Cantor, Mises, Rothbard. The only cosmopolitan I recommend is Popper and while he is most definitely a cosmopolitan, he adopted Hayek’s information theory. (When I criticize rationalism it is the incremental development of pseudoscience and deceit by justificationism, loading, framing, and overloading that I am trying to reverse with Testimonialism. The anglos philosophers were wrong in their assumptions of man, but right in their method of argument. The continentals were right in their assumptions of man but wrong in their method of argument. The cosmopolitans were dishonest in their articulation of man, and dishonest in their method of argument.) Anglo Ratio-Scientific (Legal) Philosophy – Anglo Common Law, Machiavelli, Jefferson, Pareto, Durkheim, (Popper), Hayek, (Doolittle). Science: The discovery of general rules by repeated observation resulting in accumulated wisdom. Virtue, Rules, Wisdom, where wisdom feeds back to virtue and rules. This is an inter-generational process of empirical refinement. –Laws– (captured rules) — Judaism provides a means for not only exiting their incompetent classes but an entire body of law to master, and overwhelming pressure to remain within the polity which is ensured by the hostility to outsiders and therefore outsider hostility to insiders. Judaism is perhaps the ultimate synthesis of rule based systems and history even if it is a failed system because it lacks the moral content necessary to hold land. It originated with pastoralists and remains a pastorialist (unlanded) doctrine. It lacks intertemporal moral content. That is why the jews cannot hold land. Anglo Constitutionalism expresses philosophy as law and very much under natural law, presumably as logically and scientifically constructed as is possible. Most americans are legalists – the law as religious order. Legalism can be thought of as the struggle to understand the laws of cooperation, just as we understand the laws of the physical universe. All anglo legal theory is an empirical attempt to discover and codify natural law in the absence of human discretion. This is a scientific experiment unique to anglo civilization. It is flawed only by the assumption that it is in the interests of the lower classes to compete meritocratic-ally. The fact is that only with eugenic manorialism or a substitute can such a system function. This is why no other groups use it. They are too weighted down with the lower classes who are incapable of competition and cooperation by moral means. (I tend to view law as the ultimate expression of any philosophy (which as an anglo american I would). But then I am action oriented, from the martial and commercial class, and arguably a member of the lesser aristocracy.) –Science– (investigation) — Aristotelianism (what we call science) is demanding and at times forces us to confront uncomfortable truths, but at least when large numbers of us adopt it, we are able to master reality better than all other philosophies combined. The problem is that it is an aristocratic philosophy because it requires great effort and ability to learn and apply. Which is why we invest so heavily in education: we must. Secondly, science is the study of cause and effect. But scientific analysis implies the ability to act with discretion. At the same time, rule of law exists to prevent discretion, and thereby create rules that prevent others from using discretion to manipulate us. Third, it is contentious open question whether at any scale discretionary action does more harm than good, or whether rule based action prohibits discretion when it may be beneficial. To no small degree this debate between the purpose of social science being the development of rules (conservatism) or the development of discretion (progressivism) is the cause of the political conflict of visions. Hence Sowell’s criticism of the progressive “vision of the anointed’. And it is the source of conflict between the Austrian (do nothing or naturalistic/german), Freshwater (develop rules/anglo) and Saltwater(discretionary/jewish) schools of economics – which is the discipline has evolved into our only social science. RECOMMENDATIONS So when you ask me “Where should I start in philosophy” the above understanding provides us with a framework for answering that question. You can seek to learn virtue, seek to learn wisdom, seek to learn scientific laws. You can seek personal fulfillment independent of the world at the lower end of the spectrum, or you can seek personal fulfillment within the rich competition of the world. Or you can seek comprehension of all – politics – even if you choose to pursue only personal of familial happiness. If you cause no harm by externality then I suppose that I don’t care which you choose. I would recommend that you know the truth first, and then read the ancient texts for insight into the wisdom of each age. But this is mere entertainment. These were old technologies that have been replaced with new technologies. it is sometimes entertaining to study watchmaking in an era of computer science, but it is merely entertainment, not necessary information. I cannot give counsel on that choice. I can give you counsel if you choose law and science. This is partly because I was born naturally analytical and less affected by signals and emotions than most. If you are, as are many women, the opposite, then you may need to choose a different method of achieving happiness. But, if by some chance, if you want to know the truth, regardless of the burden it places upon you then I will recommend that you start here: START WITH THE GOAL 1) The Meditations of Aurelius. Aristotle’s Ethics and Politics. In that order. THEN THE THEORY 1) Popper’s Knowledge and Ignorance and Hayek’s Use of Knowledge in Society. and Hazlitt’s Economics in One Lesson which will teach you the basic principle of costs in equilibrium. A brief introduction to Popper’s Critical Rationalism online, even if it is the few paragraphs on my site, In which you will be introduced to the darwinian approach to the evolution of knowledge. At which point you will understand that in the physical, social, and cognitive sciences, we speak in terms of information causing changes in state. Which is, as far as I know, the present, if not final, model of all human understanding about any domain. NEXT THE EVOLUTION OF THE LAWS 2) The Magna Carta, The Declaration, Constitution, Bill of rights. The Milsom’s history of the common law. Hayek’s Constitution of Liberty, and Law, Legislation and Liberty. THEN GO FOR WISDOM : THE SHORT LIST Ricardo Duchesne: The Uniqueness of Western Civilization JP Mallory: In Search of Indo Europeans John Keegan: A History Of Warfare Joseph Campbell : The Hero’s Journey Karen Armstrong : The Great Transformation Bryan Ward-Perkins: The Fall of Rome: And the End of Civilization William Tucker: Marriage and Civilization Emmanuel Todd: The Explanation of Ideology Emmanuel Todd: The Invention of Europe David Hackett Fischer: Albion’s Seed: Four British Folkways in America Daniel Hannan: Inventing Freedom Alan MacFarlane : Origins of English Individualism Gregory Clark: A Farewell to Alms Matt Ridley: The Red Queen Dale Petersen: Demonic Males Daniel Kahneman: Thinking, Fast and Slow Francis Fukuyama: Trust Jonathan Haidt: The Righteous Mind Stephen Hicks : Explaining Postmodernism Hans Hoppe: Democracy The God That Failed Doolittle: Propertarianism. THE LONGER LIST If you read those works you will be able to both (a) understand testimonialism, propertarianism, and (b) work through the rest of my reading list at www.propertarianism.com/reading-list/ which is, as far as I know, the sum of works worth investment given our current knowledge of the technology of cooperation. And after that it’s just experience and wisdom. And in gaining it, sorting the scarce kernels of wisdom from the vast chaff of human intellectual history.

  • Q: “curt, how Do I Learn Philosophy?” (repost)

    Mar 24, 2020, 2:13 PM Q: “CURT, HOW DO I LEARN PHILOSOPHY?” A: WELL THAT REQUIRES DEFINING PHILOSOPHY AND CHOOSING WHAT YOU WANT TO LEARN FROM IT. ( from August 7, 2015 ) QUESTION

    —”Hey curt, since you mentioned newbies. If an individual was beginning planning a self taught curriculum in philosophy, what would you recommend for sources? And does eastern philosophy like the teachings of the Tao hold any significance in your paradigm?”—

    ANSWER First, we need to define Philosophy. Which I think I can successfully do by stating it’s a set of ideas that assist us in forming a framework of understanding, whether by imitation of others – whether real or mythical (virtue), rules of conduct and decision making(deontological), or understanding of the mechanics of the universe(teleological), with which we can use limited human knowledge and reason for the purposes of acting to achieve needs, satisfactions, and fulfillments, by cooperating successfully in a world of others doing the same. THE OPTIONS This hierarchy of philosophies is important: imitation of virtue, dedication to rules, and understanding of cause and effect producing outcomes, place different demands on the individual. -One’s Experience- i – children and primitive cultures rely on virtue (religion) ii – adults in developing cultures rely on rules (law) iii – the wise in mature cultures rely on outcomes (science) This is the usual progression of one’s personal philosophy through life. As children, adults and at our maturity we make use of virtue, rule, and outcome ethics because that is the best we can manage at every stage of our development. This progression also remains useful, and is why wise me resort to “what would jesus do” or “what would such and such a great man do?”. Because that virtuous wisdom is, at times, the only possible means of decision making with sparse information. Just as we fall back upon rules when we are unsure of outcomes. Just as we rely upon our knowledge of outcomes to make decisions when we have accumulated the knowledge and experience to do so. So it is not a matter of choosing virtue, rule, or outcome ethics. It is a matter of acquiring each so that one can apply each in the circumstances where one possesses the information to do so – and conversely: one can judge the ethics of others by the rules they apply in each circumstance. A child who errs by virtue ethics is forgivable. An adult who errs by rules is forgivable. An wise man who errs despite his vast knowledge of a subject is forgivable. Yet the inverse is not true: a wise man who relies upon rules when he is masterful is suspect, an adult who relies upon virtue is suspect. A child who relies upon anything other than virtue is suspect. -One’s Abilities- There is a reason why women and people of lower IQ favor religion, why people in the liberal arts favor philosophy and pseudoscience, and why men and people of higher IQ favor history and science. That is because they possess the means by which to acquire and use those systems of of thought given their experience and ability. Furthermore, the acquisition of virtue, rule and outcome knowledge is costly to the individual. Not all can afford the investment, and not all have access to the literature or teachers from whom they can learn it. We do not expect feral children to demonstrate any of the ethical frameworks, and it is very difficult not to expect a first world child not to posses at least virtue ethics, if not rule ethics, and we attempt (possibly, if not probably, foolishly) to teach our children outcome ethics in the present era. -One’s control over one’s actions in life- Different philosophies whether virtuous, rational, or scientific are more or less use in different circumstances. We can break philosophies into: 1-religions, 2-disciplines 3-rationalisms(philosophies), 4-laws, and 5-sciences. It is very hard to classify any one of the bodies of thought below because all philosophical systems contain attributes of each category. I’ve organized them the best that I can. -Religions- (faith) — Christianity provides a body of myth and ritual with but one purpose: the extension of kinship love to non kin, as a means of generating universal inclusiveness. It is a religion of benevolent pacification cured only by it’s opposite in the martial nobility. Islam provides rules and virtues for people with limited intelligence to observe and daily rituals to enforce them – although this is a false promise since it achieves the opposite. I am uncomfortable commending on Hinduism since I am not sure I really understand it sufficiently (I see it through buddha’s eyes, as needing reformation), and all other ‘religions’ that I know of have been unsuccessful, or are obviously detrimental. Japan’s Shintoism combines both monarchy, ancestor worship and buddhism to produce fealty to family, clan, tribe and nation, as well as self control. For an homogenous people the combination of history, nature worship, and self control is hard to criticize other than the people are often frustrated and emotionally repressed. –Disciplines– (training) — Buddhism provides a means of achieving personal satisfaction for those who live in worlds where they have few resources, few options, little control over their circumstances. It focuses on the self. Combined with Yoga it is extremely attractive to women. Stoicism provides a means of achieving personal happiness for those who live in civilized worlds but who have little control over their environments. Stoicism is the opposite of buddhism in that buddhism achieves satisfaction by escapism and internal discipline, while stoicism achieves satisfaction by means of creating many small successes in daily life, accumulating in your achievement of virtue independent of the opinions of others. Combined with Sport it is extremely attractive to men. I tend to have a favorable view of both buddhism and stoicism. –Rationalisms— (reasoning) — Confucianism provides a means of obtaining satisfaction by conformity to fixed roles in society and providing us with wisdom for operating within those roles. Unfortunately Confucianism is paired with Sun Tzu: the philosophy of deception, and Lao Tzu: the philosophy of the poor within a hierarchical system. Together they advocate submission to authority as a means of avoiding conflict. Ancient Greco-Roman Philosophy – prior to Aristotle is interesting for the breadth of experiment that occurred in seeking a solution. I recommend The Ethics and the Politics. That’s all. Christian Natural Law Philosophy – Aquinas is interesting, but I would recommend skipping him, reading the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy entries on Natural Law instead. Anglo Empirical (Moral) Philosophy – Locke, Smith and Hume constitute the enlightenment philosophers of necessity. Continental Philosophy – is reactionary in order to compensate for the disorder produced by the errors in anglo empirical philosophy’s assumption of an aristocracy of everyone. So Continental is little more than an attempt to create a rational rather than supernatural justification of existing moral orders. There is plenty of wisdom in that philosophy, and great aspiration to it. Especially Nietzsche, who is the point of demarcation between christian mysticism and naturalistic philosophy. but it is also the source pseudoscience and lies. Cosmopolitan Philosophy (Pseudoscience, Loading, framing and overloading) Marx, Freud, Cantor, Mises, Rothbard. The only cosmopolitan I recommend is Popper and while he is most definitely a cosmopolitan, he adopted Hayek’s information theory. (When I criticize rationalism it is the incremental development of pseudoscience and deceit by justificationism, loading, framing, and overloading that I am trying to reverse with Testimonialism. The anglos philosophers were wrong in their assumptions of man, but right in their method of argument. The continentals were right in their assumptions of man but wrong in their method of argument. The cosmopolitans were dishonest in their articulation of man, and dishonest in their method of argument.) Anglo Ratio-Scientific (Legal) Philosophy – Anglo Common Law, Machiavelli, Jefferson, Pareto, Durkheim, (Popper), Hayek, (Doolittle). Science: The discovery of general rules by repeated observation resulting in accumulated wisdom. Virtue, Rules, Wisdom, where wisdom feeds back to virtue and rules. This is an inter-generational process of empirical refinement. –Laws– (captured rules) — Judaism provides a means for not only exiting their incompetent classes but an entire body of law to master, and overwhelming pressure to remain within the polity which is ensured by the hostility to outsiders and therefore outsider hostility to insiders. Judaism is perhaps the ultimate synthesis of rule based systems and history even if it is a failed system because it lacks the moral content necessary to hold land. It originated with pastoralists and remains a pastorialist (unlanded) doctrine. It lacks intertemporal moral content. That is why the jews cannot hold land. Anglo Constitutionalism expresses philosophy as law and very much under natural law, presumably as logically and scientifically constructed as is possible. Most americans are legalists – the law as religious order. Legalism can be thought of as the struggle to understand the laws of cooperation, just as we understand the laws of the physical universe. All anglo legal theory is an empirical attempt to discover and codify natural law in the absence of human discretion. This is a scientific experiment unique to anglo civilization. It is flawed only by the assumption that it is in the interests of the lower classes to compete meritocratic-ally. The fact is that only with eugenic manorialism or a substitute can such a system function. This is why no other groups use it. They are too weighted down with the lower classes who are incapable of competition and cooperation by moral means. (I tend to view law as the ultimate expression of any philosophy (which as an anglo american I would). But then I am action oriented, from the martial and commercial class, and arguably a member of the lesser aristocracy.) –Science– (investigation) — Aristotelianism (what we call science) is demanding and at times forces us to confront uncomfortable truths, but at least when large numbers of us adopt it, we are able to master reality better than all other philosophies combined. The problem is that it is an aristocratic philosophy because it requires great effort and ability to learn and apply. Which is why we invest so heavily in education: we must. Secondly, science is the study of cause and effect. But scientific analysis implies the ability to act with discretion. At the same time, rule of law exists to prevent discretion, and thereby create rules that prevent others from using discretion to manipulate us. Third, it is contentious open question whether at any scale discretionary action does more harm than good, or whether rule based action prohibits discretion when it may be beneficial. To no small degree this debate between the purpose of social science being the development of rules (conservatism) or the development of discretion (progressivism) is the cause of the political conflict of visions. Hence Sowell’s criticism of the progressive “vision of the anointed’. And it is the source of conflict between the Austrian (do nothing or naturalistic/german), Freshwater (develop rules/anglo) and Saltwater(discretionary/jewish) schools of economics – which is the discipline has evolved into our only social science. RECOMMENDATIONS So when you ask me “Where should I start in philosophy” the above understanding provides us with a framework for answering that question. You can seek to learn virtue, seek to learn wisdom, seek to learn scientific laws. You can seek personal fulfillment independent of the world at the lower end of the spectrum, or you can seek personal fulfillment within the rich competition of the world. Or you can seek comprehension of all – politics – even if you choose to pursue only personal of familial happiness. If you cause no harm by externality then I suppose that I don’t care which you choose. I would recommend that you know the truth first, and then read the ancient texts for insight into the wisdom of each age. But this is mere entertainment. These were old technologies that have been replaced with new technologies. it is sometimes entertaining to study watchmaking in an era of computer science, but it is merely entertainment, not necessary information. I cannot give counsel on that choice. I can give you counsel if you choose law and science. This is partly because I was born naturally analytical and less affected by signals and emotions than most. If you are, as are many women, the opposite, then you may need to choose a different method of achieving happiness. But, if by some chance, if you want to know the truth, regardless of the burden it places upon you then I will recommend that you start here: START WITH THE GOAL 1) The Meditations of Aurelius. Aristotle’s Ethics and Politics. In that order. THEN THE THEORY 1) Popper’s Knowledge and Ignorance and Hayek’s Use of Knowledge in Society. and Hazlitt’s Economics in One Lesson which will teach you the basic principle of costs in equilibrium. A brief introduction to Popper’s Critical Rationalism online, even if it is the few paragraphs on my site, In which you will be introduced to the darwinian approach to the evolution of knowledge. At which point you will understand that in the physical, social, and cognitive sciences, we speak in terms of information causing changes in state. Which is, as far as I know, the present, if not final, model of all human understanding about any domain. NEXT THE EVOLUTION OF THE LAWS 2) The Magna Carta, The Declaration, Constitution, Bill of rights. The Milsom’s history of the common law. Hayek’s Constitution of Liberty, and Law, Legislation and Liberty. THEN GO FOR WISDOM : THE SHORT LIST Ricardo Duchesne: The Uniqueness of Western Civilization JP Mallory: In Search of Indo Europeans John Keegan: A History Of Warfare Joseph Campbell : The Hero’s Journey Karen Armstrong : The Great Transformation Bryan Ward-Perkins: The Fall of Rome: And the End of Civilization William Tucker: Marriage and Civilization Emmanuel Todd: The Explanation of Ideology Emmanuel Todd: The Invention of Europe David Hackett Fischer: Albion’s Seed: Four British Folkways in America Daniel Hannan: Inventing Freedom Alan MacFarlane : Origins of English Individualism Gregory Clark: A Farewell to Alms Matt Ridley: The Red Queen Dale Petersen: Demonic Males Daniel Kahneman: Thinking, Fast and Slow Francis Fukuyama: Trust Jonathan Haidt: The Righteous Mind Stephen Hicks : Explaining Postmodernism Hans Hoppe: Democracy The God That Failed Doolittle: Propertarianism. THE LONGER LIST If you read those works you will be able to both (a) understand testimonialism, propertarianism, and (b) work through the rest of my reading list at www.propertarianism.com/reading-list/ which is, as far as I know, the sum of works worth investment given our current knowledge of the technology of cooperation. And after that it’s just experience and wisdom. And in gaining it, sorting the scarce kernels of wisdom from the vast chaff of human intellectual history.

  • A Chit Chat on Truth Objective Truth

    Jan 12, 2020, 4:08 PM

    —“Curt Doolittle there is objective truth. Not sure the reasoning to say otherwise.”—Tim Abbott

    Well, that’s ’cause you’re taking advantage of a weakness in english (and most) grammar. This allows you the confidence to claim you understand something when you don’t.

    1) Try to say that without the verb to-be. (is, are, was, were etc). Try it. 2) define truth. This is my area of specialization (falsifying presumptions of knowledge) Its like training people not to think in deities (anthropomorphic fictions). Same for platonisms (non-anthropomorphic fictions).

    —“Curt Doolittle I would be interested to learn where I am wrong. An animal dies. That becomes a fact. To say the animal is not dead is a lie.”—Tim Abbott

    ^which is a tautology. ( And also a reductio simplicity. ) I can speak truthfully. (adverb) You can speak truthfully. (adverb) What does it mean to speak ‘the fast’ (adverb) or ‘the red’ (adverb)? When you say “I promise the animal is dead” under what conditions are you not speaking truthfully? A fact is a promise of a theory of an observation. A theory is a promise of observations yet to be observed. All non tautological, non-trivial claims are forever contingent. One can only satisfy the demand for testimony in a given market (context) which defines limits. There is some most parsimonious vocabulary, paradigm, language, (right now it’s math at the limits of math). But math currently is too limited for the scope of demand for testimony. So, one can speak honestly, truthfully (falsifying with his limits of knowledge and reason), scientifically(testimonially, having done due diligence) on can speak tautologically within a given language, or we can imagine that someday somehow we may produce a most parsimonious language with universal commensurability (paradigm) – which is an ‘ideal’. If we spoke in that paradigm (an ideal) we would speak truthfully – consistently correspondently operationally completely and coherently, in the most parsimonious language (what you call objective). So, like ‘infinity’, ‘the truth’ is simply a variable we attribute to ‘i don’t know’ because I don’t know the limits. So one cannot claim ‘the truth exists’ one can say we can discover a means of speaking truthfully, meaning satisfying the market demand for infallibility in the context at hand. The truth, like infinity, is simply a statement of ‘we dunno that yet’. Ill try to do a better job per advice from Martin Štěpán: WHEREAS; 1. The universe exists. 2. The patterns of constant relations in the universe exist 3. We can correctly identify name and describe those patterns. The question is whether you are defining The Truth as those relations, or whether you are defining truth as the precision of our speech measured by parsimony, consistency, correspondence, completeness and coherence. AND WHEREAS; 1. patterns exist (realism naturalism determinism). 2. The potential for us to describe them perfectly free of error exists. 3. We identify increasingly precise means of naming and describing them. THEREFORE We therefore must invent: (a) a means of naming and describing them, (b) a means of discovering them. (d) discoveries of each of them (b) a means of continuously improving them. AND; 1 -Western man invented truthful speech (realism, naturalism, determinism, operationalism, testimonialism) 2 -Western man invented the means of discovering them (reason, empiricism, science, operationalism) 3 – Western man invented (by far) most of the discoveries using those inventions. THEREFORE; And this is why I’m so … consistent in my pursuit of the truth – so that we don’t revert back to the lies that dominate the rest of mankind.