Category: Politics, Power, and Governance

What is the surprise?
1) Our postwar strategy was to prevent the restoration of empires that caused the world wars, and instead, enforce national sovereignty, human rights, and world trade, despite the cost to working class Americans, in a successful effort to raise the world out of poverty, and end the incentive for world wars.
2) Ukraine wanted its sovereignty and wanted to join the EU, and be out of the Russian orbit, because Russia was behind undermining their military, their government, and their economy, and moreover, they wanted to join NATO after RU invaded in ’14 – which before we would not have agreed to.

3) Everyone knew that RU would just stall and start the war again to take all of ukraine. We all hoped to buy Ukraine time to recover, build up its military, so that it could resist the obvious future Russian invasion. Otherwise (as now) we would end up fighting russia directly. I mean, in 2014 russia was threatening the baltics and even sweden with conquest.

4) Yes, without ousting Yanukovych, Poroshenko and Klitchko and many others, might not have been able and willing to step in.

5) Containing Russia despite their post-soviet wars of aggression in the caucuses and elsewhere to restore the RUssian empire, has been an objective since 1945.

I suspect the public has dimwit or no memory of these things as if this stuff hasn’t been an ongoing struggle for a century.

So please tell me what’s odd here. This is all pretty much common knowledge. So I’d have to understand how the conspiracy theory folk interpret this as other than the obvious.

What is the surprise?
1) Our postwar strategy was to prevent the restoration of empires that caused the world wars, and instead, enforce national sovereignty, human rights, and world trade, despite the cost to working class Americans, in a successful effort to raise the world out of poverty, and end the incentive for world wars.
2) Ukraine wanted its sovereignty and wanted to join the EU, and be out of the Russian orbit, because Russia was behind undermining their military, their government, and their economy, and moreover, they wanted to join NATO after RU invaded in ’14 – which before we would not have agreed to.

3) Everyone knew that RU would just stall and start the war again to take all of ukraine. We all hoped to buy Ukraine time to recover, build up its military, so that it could resist the obvious future Russian invasion. Otherwise (as now) we would end up fighting russia directly. I mean, in 2014 russia was threatening the baltics and even sweden with conquest.

4) Yes, without ousting Yanukovych, Poroshenko and Klitchko and many others, might not have been able and willing to step in.

5) Containing Russia despite their post-soviet wars of aggression in the caucuses and elsewhere to restore the RUssian empire, has been an objective since 1945.

I suspect the public has dimwit or no memory of these things as if this stuff hasn’t been an ongoing struggle for a century.

So please tell me what’s odd here. This is all pretty much common knowledge. So I’d have to understand how the conspiracy theory folk interpret this as other than the obvious.

Reply addressees: @bryanbrey @elonmusk @KanekoaTheGreat