“One of the common themes we see from some people who countersignal us is often

—“One of the common themes we see from some people who countersignal us is often they seem to pooh-pooh law as a solution and think that everything can be solved with some sort of aesthetic or spiritual movement. These guys are often young. I see them as just looking for a solution within a frame they understand and that is intuitive to them. In contrast to some of the more mature people who have a spiritual bent but also recognize the importance of punishment (law) and that not everything can be accomplished only with persuasion.”— John Mark